Everton's loan haven is attracting other clubs, says Roberto Martínez

[kevdotbadger]

I think a lot of people here are missing the point. We're building up a decent relationship with other clubs. One day it will pay off, we'll get first dibs on a leaving player.

 

[ProZ]

Leg it and go support City then, moron.

I got an infraction and negged for this? Jesus, can't fart on here without someone smelling it.

The truth is, of-course we would like to buy our own players that goes without saying, however, if we can bring in the likes of Lukaku in on short term contracts (loans) to tide us over and fight for a CL place then why not?
we only need them for one year to help propel us into the top 4, thus generating some extra revenue and prestige for better quality permanent transfers.

It was a stupid simple minded comment and deserved the response it got.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

I can't make sense of this - surely if the players we bring in on loan are performing brilliantly, then that's exactly what you want? Otherwise, why would you loan them?

Let's put it this way - you've just said bringing in 1 or 2 talented youngsters is desirable - but what stops them ALSO being our best, most important players? Or are we supposed to just loan gash for the sake of squad bulking?

Barry is basically signed unless we choose not to take the option, so that's an example of a loan leading to a permanent. Lukaku and Deulofeu are exactly the same as Moses and Cissokho. We signed a permanent player in McCarthy for £13m and we have money left over. I don't see what the problem is here.

I didn't mean a problem as in i'd rather not have them at all. I meant a problem as in i'd rather have them permanatly as our players under contract. I'd rather have a Leighton Baines and Ross Barkley than a Gareth Barry and Romelu Lukaku. Because come the end of the season we either have the first 2 or a load of money, the last 2 we either have them or we don't.

Obviously i want any loan players to be good, but if we start to rely on loans being of the quality of Barry and Lukaku every year thats incredibly risky. Loans are fine every season if they're try before you buys or talented youngsters from top clubs.

But not when they are your best most important players because the risk of losing them for nothing with the uphill task of replacing them is way too great.

 

[billycopper]

As has been said, short term using loans to ass quality and/or depth to your squad is fine. Its worked well for us in the past and is doing so right now.

But they should only be used on a try before you buy type scenario (as Moyes did well), short term first 11 fixes (as Martinez did in thr summer with Barry and Lukaku) or adding depth to a small squad.

But loans should never be a long term solution to actually buying players outright, and i think its perfectly valid point to worry that if Martinez can make full use of the loan system to keep us in the same position that Moyes did then the board will have even less of a reason to actually try and find the money to let him buy players as well as loan them, therefor meaning we continue to bang our heads on the top 4 glass ceiling.

I've no problem if we can bring in 1 or 2 talented youngsters from top clubs a year to supplement our squad. I do have a problem if each year 2 or 3 of our best most important players are loans, as they are now.

Who have been our best players this year? Maybe something like:

1. Lukaku
2. Barkley
3. Coleman
4. Jagielka
5. Barry
6. McCarthy
7. Mirallas
8. Deulofeu
9. Distin
10. Howard
11. Osman

Next summer we might sign Barry on a free and Deulofeu for another season-long loan. We might also be able to sign Lukaku if we achieve CL football.

Practically all our transfer budget could go into signing Romelu. So we might have to take advantage of loans again to bring in a second striker and cover for Barkley.

The summer after that we might be able to buy those fringe players, meaning that we have less need to take our full allowance of loans the following season.

We were nearly men under Moyes. If loans, in the short-term, can push us up among the elite it could give us the funds and the prestige to attract better players permanently. It's a means to an end.

 

[Ambient]

Even Atletico Madrid loans players and they are the second best team in Spain atm.
So why not if that gain us

 

[deipnosophist]

I got an infraction and negged for this? Jesus, can't fart on here without someone smelling it.

The truth is, of-course we would like to buy our own players that goes without saying, however, if we can bring in the likes of Lukaku in on short term contracts (loans) to tide us over and fight for a CL place then why not?
we only need them for one year to help propel us into the top 4, thus generating some extra revenue and prestige for better quality permanent transfers.

It was a stupid simple minded comment and deserved the response it got.

I agree mate and thought your retort was short, sweet... and bang on

 

[bluenosemoose]

My take on this is: As long as we are only adding quality loans into the squad,then i don,t see the problem...in fact i see it as a major learning curve for the fringe players to not only learn from them,but to fight to gain their place in the side.

Players,such as Lukaku & Del will give everyone so much more in terms of playing strength's.

This can only be good for the club in the long run,and if it gets us top 4....then i reckon that's just the start.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

Who have been our best players this year? Maybe something like:

1. Lukaku
2. Barkley
3. Coleman
4. Jagielka
5. Barry
6. McCarthy
7. Mirallas
8. Deulofeu
9. Distin
10. Howard
11. Osman

Next summer we might sign Barry on a free and Deulofeu for another season-long loan. We might also be able to sign Lukaku if we achieve CL football.

Practically all our transfer budget could go into signing Romelu. So we might have to take advantage of loans again to bring in a second striker and cover for Barkley.

The summer after that we might be able to buy those fringe players, meaning that we have less need to take our full allowance of loans the following season.

We were nearly men under Moyes. If loans, in the short-term, can push us up among the elite it could give us the funds and the prestige to attract better players permanently. It's a means to an end.

Yes, i've no problem with our use of loans this season as i said.

Its just a worry about years to come because whilst your scenario might happen, it also might not.

We might not agree personal terms with Barry, Barca might recall Deulefeu and Chelsea might recall Lukaku.

We'll be 3 key players down. They will highly preferably be replaced by 3 permanents with 3 loans on top of that. Not 3 loans, which with our boards history is the worry.

 

[billycopper]

I didn't mean a problem as in i'd rather not have them at all. I meant a problem as in i'd rather have them permanatly as our players under contract. I'd rather have a Leighton Baines and Ross Barkley than a Gareth Barry and Romelu Lukaku. Because come the end of the season we either have the first 2 or a load of money, the last 2 we either have them or we don't.

Obviously i want any loan players to be good, but if we start to rely on loans being of the quality of Barry and Lukaku every year thats incredibly risky. Loans are fine every season if they're try before you buys or talented youngsters from top clubs.

But not when they are your best most important players because the risk of losing them for nothing with the uphill task of replacing them is way too great.

A couple of years ago Sunderland had to rely on loans to put a side together. We're not in that situation. It's great to have a few key players to take us from being hard to beat to a real match for most teams but if they left tomorrow we wouldn't disintegrate. Gibson is a more than capable deputy for Barry (when fit), Jelavic and Kone can hit double figures if they're able to find form and Deulofeu has only been used sparingly so far.

 

[billycopper]

Yes, i've no problem with our use of loans this season as i said.

Its just a worry about years to come because whilst your scenario might happen, it also might not.

We might not agree personal terms with Barry, Barca might recall Deulefeu and Chelsea might recall Lukaku.

We'll be 3 key players down. They will highly preferably be replaced by 3 permanents with 3 loans on top of that. Not 3 loans, which with our boards history is the worry.

None of us are really sure of the finances at the club but it seems like Kone was about all we could afford until Fellaini and Anichebe left. Because those deals were done so late it was more practical to bring loan signings in rather than permanent players.

Martinez has said that he wants replacements for Kone and Gibson in January. We can only bring one more loan in, so at least one of those will be a permanent transfer.

I don't think that Roberto would accept having to rely on loans to build a side. It's about the only way that we can afford to bring the quality of player in that can take us to the next level though.

 

[BiggyRat]

Jesus, can't fart on here without someone smelling it.

Was that yours? :blink: Sweet Jesus! Are you ok?

 

[BiggyRat]

He would poo his kilt!!

Technically...I think it would just drop to the ground rather than staining his kilt...unless he was sitting down...

 

[Matthew Martinez]

I haven't read the whole thread (so apologies if I'm just repeating your comments guys) but I'm guessing there are enough people with the intelligence to see the wisdom behind this ploy from sir Roberto. It's only gonna take one season where the loanees blast us into the champ league and boom we can afford them, we are big enough, they feel appreciated, we fkin love them, the glory days return. COYB!!!

 

[Matthew Martinez]

Yes, i've no problem with our use of loans this season as i said.

Its just a worry about years to come because whilst your scenario might happen, it also might not.

We might not agree personal terms with Barry, Barca might recall Deulefeu and Chelsea might recall Lukaku.

We'll be 3 key players down. They will highly preferably be replaced by 3 permanents with 3 loans on top of that. Not 3 loans, which with our boards history is the worry.

I think this is why he's (bobby) sayin this though. Incase we don't get any of Barry, Gerry or lukaku (the absolute worst case scenario) next yr we can get another 3 loans cos at the VERY LEAST we've shown we can develop good young players as well as give experienced out of favour players a great place to show they've still got it.

 

[ProZ]

Was that yours? :blink: Sweet Jesus! Are you ok?

Sorry, it was! I tried to disguise it by coughing simultaneously but it appears my plan was foiled.