Likewise Joe Anderson and possibly Lewis Warrington. Just enjoy watching them at the youth levels and wish them well when they leave.
Unfortunately, I wouldn't say the vast majority understand it at all to be honest. The way you look at it is of course right, but I think you're in the minority in seeing that. Lots of people still see virtually every youth player as a potential first teamer, and believe that some of them should be in the side already/will be breaking through any moment.
mightymoyes
Player Valuation: £70m
i assume you must be talking about people who don't actually pay any real attention to the youth teams or youth football, regulars on here all know the score.
I'm not really breaking it down into smaller subsections, I'm just talking about the fanbase in general, as I assume that's what the original post was referring to. Obviously you'd expect people who have seen more of the individuals and who are more clued up on youth football in general to be less inclined to get carried away. I'm fairly sure you're a regular advocate of throwing youngsters in though, which I think is kind of what was being talked about in the post I referenced.
mightymoyes
Player Valuation: £70m
I assume that reply was to me.
I'm an advocate of using our own players when we can instead of clogging up the squad with journeymen wasters who contribute next to nothing and drain the club as we've been doing for years
Sorry yeah I don't know how i managed to do that! I think you advocate more than that. It's not a criticism, there's nothing wrong with it and in some cases you may well be right, but I think you generally take the line that our young players should be given chances, when I think the post from @Timak - which you're saying people like you understand - seemed to be suggesting that they disagree, and that most of them simply won't be good enough. I know you posted in the summer about Warrington's path to the first team, but I think he's exactly the type of player Timak is referencing as being unlikely to make it.
mightymoyes
Player Valuation: £70m
I'm more than happy to see Warrington go out on loan because we signed better young players in his position to build something going forward.
You'll never convince me someone like simms (I know he's unlikely to be a viable long term option) would contribute less than rondon or a 12 year old wouldn't offer more than el ghazi last season.
Yeah in some ways my “ vast majority “ should have been clarified by me saying I’m really talking about those people who post on youth football here and elsewhere. Those who show an interest are I believe generally accepting of the fact few will make the first team. But it would be fair to say that people with a high interest in our youth teams are a small portion of our total fan base.
Cameron Manning
Player Valuation: £35m
Being hones El Ghazi whether he was good, bad or indifferent couldn’t offer anything if he never got the nod to play, which he didn’t apart from one three minute spell in one game. Frank just chose not to play him.
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Verbal Kint
Player Valuation: £35m
Haven't seen as many youth games this year but he always stood out previously.
I think Tim works in football, and he is of course spot on. The PL is a very difficult league to make an impact in. I like Warrington as a player, but just cant see him being big enough to make it here.
Mills seems to be the latest name, and dont get me wrong he has really improved, but I said the other week, the idea that he is a saviour who is going to be miles better than our current options I find doubtful. As always I'd love to be proven wrong, but its doubtful.
If we produce a Gordon every couple of years, and learn to sell at the right times, that would be a very good return for us.
It's funny, I watched the Devon derby the other night and saw Galloway playing left back, and doing ok. He was probably ahead of most of our current under 23s in ability, and finds himself in league 1.
You also look at a lad like Small, who was one of our best young talents, and after going to Southampton is now warming the bench for Port Vale.
As you say, the physicality of the league is just so high. Compare Liverpool in the PL to Europe this season. Even poor PL teams can physically overpower them, whereas in Europe they just out muscle teams. Those leagues are just structurally more easily set up for younger players. That, and the lack of the armageddon of relegation can allow for some longer term thinking.
My own concern with our academy, FWIW for some time is that we have maybe focussed on making good team players, rather than outstanding individuals. Essentially producing lads who will be good enough to make a career out of the game, but not enough to be special enough to play for a PL team. It's a noble thing to do, but doesnt really help EFC much, especially as the championship transfer outlays have plummeted over the last 3-4 years.
There at least seems to be more of a structure now, and lads like ISS are being pushed through more. As an example mate, what do you think of the idea that EFC should prioritise getting some younger players first team exposure to shove them to the front of the cue for potential loans? Is that the sort of thing that sides in the lower leagues would look at when assessing a loan player?
Yeah I think people forget/don't realise that League One is littered with players who came through the ranks at PL clubs and didn't make it. You often see people talking about our youngsters going on loan to that level and not being able to show their silky skills because it's just full of cloggers who aren't on the same wavelength or will kick them off the park, but half of the players they play with and against will have had exactly the same sort of footballing education they've had. Somebody said it to me about Onyango a few weeks ago, but when I had a quick look at the Burton side they've got another lad on loan from the PL and then people who've been at United, Chelsea, Spurs, West Ham etc. The huge majority of academy players will end up dropping down the leagues, and as a couple of people have said, the more people accept that the better.
Yes definitely and it's why I am more wary of loans as well. It's a huge cultural difference, not a cheat code.
You're right to say about littered with those players from PL teams. But I'd go a step further and say, filled with some of the best prospects from their academies, who are also physically much stronger and more battle hardened than 18/19 year olds.
If you take us for example, one of our best year groups of years gone by now has Connolly, Joe William's, Ledson, Liam Walsh etc all playing their trade in the championship or league 1. These were some of our best prospects over the last decade.
People assume that lower league means less competitive as well. That teams will forgive performance for half a season so we get the benefit. They wont. In ways at that level, football is more short termist and closer to where the game was 30 years ago. Shorter contracts, less pay, more reliance on win bonuses etc. They are not on a pittance, but are on a short career. It would be like if someone at your job was messing up and costing you half your salary. You're not going to let that situation slide for 6 months.
The PL is filled with multi millionaires who are insulated from this.
I appreciate it's a long post, but theres a reason why most of the time, when the under 23s are playing in that JV trophy or whatever, they dont win often. And that's almost every team as well. They are just not at that level most of the time.
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