Everton Youth Teams Thread

[blueloon]

I think size makes a crucial difference mate.

Indeed, particularly in the centre back positions . I think Ryan Astley has been one of our best technical defenders in recent years , but was quickly overtaken by the bigger Branthwaite when he arrived and the taller Welch now. Morgan Feeney too was a clever defender who lacked the physicality / size to push on.

 

[UltraVires]

Does anyone have any belief that we will see many of these young lads in an Everton team in a year or two in the PL if we stay up?

Based on the limited amount I have seen, I don’t think there are too many players that I’d be confident of promoting to first team level, they all strike me as just slightly below like Broadhead, Welch, Simms etc.

I think Dobbin did ok in his limited step ups to first team but I don’t see him getting much game time next year still. I wonder if Moshiri manages to get some investment then maybe he could consider doing the City way and buy another club in Belgium or something to send these lads on loan to get a first team opportunity against men albeit at a lower level.

 

[catcherintherye]

I think there is a baseline of athleticism and technique required to make it as a pro.

You can play up to Champ level if you are really good at one or the other.

To reach PL levels you need to be both, and if you are slightly weaker at one then you must be exceptional at the other. Always room for a Modric to make it but even "weak athletes" like him can press, cover ground, and find space with quick darting movement.

Yes all true mate.

But being 6 ft 5 and a good mover with it gives you a lot of advantages.

 

[catcherintherye]

Indeed, particularly in the centre back positions . I think Ryan Astley has been one of our best technical defenders in recent years , but was quickly overtaken by the bigger Branthwaite when he arrived and the taller Welch now. Morgan Feeney too was a clever defender who lacked the physicality / size to push on.

Yes both good examples.

 

[Charles Hawtrey]

I think there is a baseline of athleticism and technique required to make it as a pro.

You can play up to Champ level if you are really good at one or the other.

To reach PL levels you need to be both, and if you are slightly weaker at one then you must be exceptional at the other. Always room for a Modric to make it but even "weak athletes" like him can press, cover ground, and find space with quick darting movement.

JJK???

 

[mikel_88]

Best for dobbin to get a loan out get some game time

 

[sw blue]

I found it interesting that is there was no sign of the older outfield players that are unlikely to make it it with Everton. No Astley, Quirk, Hunt, Hughes etc.

A few of those that played need exposure to first team football next year, similar to Simms and Gordon last season, Onyango being the main one that I think would benefit.

 

[EFC_FRANCIS]

Yes all true mate.

But being 6 ft 5 and a good mover with it gives you a lot of advantages.

Best example of what you're talking about is Soucek at West Ham.

 

[blueloon]

I found it interesting that is there was no sign of the older outfield players that are unlikely to make it it with Everton. No Astley, Quirk, Hunt, Hughes etc.

A few of those that played need exposure to first team football next year, similar to Simms and Gordon last season, Onyango being the main one that I think would benefit.

We’ve come a long way in recent years, that team on Friday was close to being last years FA Youth cup team , 6 u18s and 1 u16 featured. It wasn’t that long ago we were moaning about older players like Duffus, Dyson , McAleny clogging up the u23s but not remotely close to being squad prospects. Now we’re moving them on earlier. We know that a high percentage of them won’t make our first team , but we’ll know early. Having reduced the average age we need to stick with the model and keep bringing youngsters into the u23s early.

 

[Nymzee]

 

[Eggs]

Best for dobbin to get a loan out get some game time

….sounds ideal, but loans rarely turn out to be straightforward. Managers are interested in points, not in the development of highly rated youngsters. It’s all about winning & as we’ve seen with many loanees they can spend much of their time on the sidelines.

The very best youngsters should stay at FF where their best interests are looked after & where they can train with top flight teammates.

 

[BigMick]

….sounds ideal, but loans rarely turn out to be straightforward. Managers are interested in points, not in the development of highly rated youngsters. It’s all about winning & as we’ve seen with many loanees they can spend much of their time on the sidelines.

The very best youngsters should stay at FF where their best interests are looked after & where they can train with top flight teammates.

I think every player is different. In some cases I'd agree that it might be best for the player to stay at FF and train with the 1st team. In others, it's best they go out on loan, whether it's 'successful' or not - Gordon's inability to hold down a regular spot in the Preston team this time last year may well have served to open his eyes to what he needed to do if he was going to improve, while Lewis Warrington is undoubtedly learning more in these months at Tranmere than he would have done staying at FF, playing at a level which he had already outgrown. He may well have got to train with the 1st team, sit on the bench, maybe even set foot on the pitch if we were winning easily with 1 minute to go, but I think he's better off where he is, and then come back to FF and try to impress the coaches during preseason.

Some players could well be damaged by something like Gordon experienced at Preston, others would learn from it. Everyone's different - it's up to the coaches to work out what's best for each player.

 

[Eggs]

I think every player is different. In some cases I'd agree that it might be best for the player to stay at FF and train with the 1st team. In others, it's best they go out on loan, whether it's 'successful' or not - Gordon's inability to hold down a regular spot in the Preston team this time last year may well have served to open his eyes to what he needed to do if he was going to improve, while Lewis Warrington is undoubtedly learning more in these months at Tranmere than he would have done staying at FF, playing at a level which he had already outgrown. He may well have got to train with the 1st team, sit on the bench, maybe even set foot on the pitch if we were winning easily with 1 minute to go, but I think he's better off where he is, and then come back to FF and try to impress the coaches during preseason.

Some players could well be damaged by something like Gordon experienced at Preston, others would learn from it. Everyone's different - it's up to the coaches to work out what's best for each player.

….Gordon might have been better off staying here.

Posters praised the fact that Lewis Gibson was given a ‘pathway to the first team’, but these grandiose phrases mean nothing in reality. Bottom line is, his loan spells have been dreadful. Our Academy loanees have a disastrous record of being a success at Everton, very few go onto play 50 games for us (Osman, Barkley).

 

[blueloon]

That’s a decent read, often I feel I learn more from the good people who contribute to this thread, with their differing views, than from the Athletic.
For me we need change , we can’t fall back into the cosy “ safe pair of hands” prospect that Ebbrell and Waldron offer, we’ve been cosy at Academy level for too long.

 

[BigMick]

….Gordon might have been better off staying here.

Posters praised the fact that Lewis Gibson was given a ‘pathway to the first team’, but these grandiose phrases mean nothing in reality. Bottom line is, his loan spells have been dreadful. Our Academy loanees have a disastrous record of being a success at Everton, very few go onto play 50 games for us (Osman, Barkley).

Totally agree about Gibson - he's gone backwards - and you're right about glib phrases like 'pathway to the 1st team'. It could be, though, that Gibson simply wasn't as good as we thought he was.

Disagree about Gordon - he himself as described it as beneficial.

"The loan benefited me massively. I would recommend going out on loan to any young player because (while) that loan didn't how go how I planned it and it wasn't really a successful loan, the things I learnt as a person and the situations I found myself in, I just found myself maturing day-by-day. It does wonders for you without you even realising and the benefits come later down the line.
So for me it was about focusing on myself; I think I have taken that into the new season and I think it has benefited me massively."


He also makes the point that such an experience wouldn't be suitable for every one:

"I can look back and be proud of myself that I (managed to) overcome a bad loan because a lot of young, very good players don't overcome those types of loan."

Everyone's different - but I'd agree with you that the loans have to be at clubs where they have a chance of playing regularly. Then it's up to them to show that they can cope, and learn from the experience no matter what happens, as Gordon did.