Everton Transfer Thread - Summer 2020

riddick

Player Valuation: £70m
The Henry thing isnt a footballing decision though, they knew we'd need to get a work permit and it may have been informed that it wasn't likely again and as I've said I think Vlasic could have been given more time. I would have lookman over iwobi all day long too but ultimately players hold the power these days and I think the value at the time was good.

We have absolutely missed Gana, and I have sympathy that he brought in Gbamin (all be it not to the same job, but to provide a key role) as a replacement and that has been disastrous so far (I dont place that at Brands' door though).We seem to be on a similar page regarding Brands as it is. We wont see the true effect of a DOF for a couple of years anyway and I give Brands some time based half his job cleaning up what was a horrendous situation.

I just hope we recover next season, and make some progress, maybe CA's knowledge and eye for a player will aid Brands be a strong team and we can move from there. The profile of what we are looking for has certainly changed (Gabriel seems to be the ideal profile).

Who knows. I'm trying to be positive regarding the current set up, we have experience and quality in our coach and a DOF who has, in the past, proven he acn spot a player. Hopefully we can get a bit more consistency in our recruitment.
The Henry think was even more perplexing than "he couldn't get a work permit" because he moved from Anderlecht(?) in the last year he needed to get residence in Belgium. All he had to do was stay there for another year and he was an EU citizen. Bam, work permit. But they/he moved from Belgium for some absolute inexplicable reason. I get they weren't happy with how that club handled his injury but that just made everything a giant waste of time.
 

sharkey1001

Player Valuation: £10m
In Ancelotti’s last 4 or 5 interviews, he’s talked about the ambition of the club and owner and wanting to fight for titles. We ain’t doing that on free’s and loans.

also he said we didn’t have to sell to buy.
Obviously he’s talked to Moshiri. Brands and maybe Usmanov. But he’s In for a shock when he sits down with theEsk and gets the true facts.

Don't listen to his podcasts, he personifies doom and gloom. Said the same last year that we haven't a pot to pi$$ in and we Kean, Iwobi, Gbamin, Gomes and Delph... without getting rid of our garbage (Sandro, Bolasie, Tosun, Besic, Garbutt, Niasse, Martina, etc).

As if Carlo, who had plans to take a break from the game, decided to jump back in with the promise of sell to buy, and work is magic on turning Tom Davies into Pirlo, Theo Walcott into an actual winger who does anything productive and Gylfi Sigurdsson into a box-to-box midfield general. LOL.

Carlo will get £100m+ - i have no doubt about it. We have already saved £20m a year in wages getting rid of some of the garbage. Keep the faith; ignore the Esk - the man hasn't a clue!
 

andy4efc

Player Valuation: £70m
We definitely share the same view point mate. I do think there is a duty of care by the DOF of the club, in that he needs to manage certain situations, id accept all of them you are not going to win, but some are, the role i imagine invloves some managemnt and people management skills.

Im realistic we needed revenue into the club and some decisions were made, i think the cumulative effect of some of those decisions in hindsight (and id accept that) has proven to be poor, had an objective effect on the pitch and i do think there is an accountability to the DOF around that. Its not an easier number, he needed revenue in last summer, there was unsettled players - that proved low hanging fruit.

But, were we better or worse off, doing nothing, i think we had a better squad heading into the summer window last year then leaving (though i think Kean is quality), we also spent 30 mill, thats not great player trading in my opinion. i accept all the context points you mention though, but i dont think we should necessarily give a free pass on that.

Oh I'd say you're right we probably did have a better squad. It feels like some of our squad have just fallen of a cliff in terms of ability and energy which hasn't helped as well though. Coleman's slowed down (expectedly), Walcott, whle not brilliant is definately better than he has showed this season, Siggy's legs have absolutely been chopped off. Our right side has been abysmal this season.

With regards to the players being moved on. I dont think there is a right or wrong answer (particularly with Gana). A 29 year old is coming to the end of his career. Do you keep and value his contribution for the next 2 seasons at £30m? or do you take the money knowing it's the last opportunity to do so. I can see merits in both keeping and selling him so I dont blame him for it, even if we are weaker now due to a combination of poor recruitment (Delph) and unfortunate injury (Gbamin) (thats where Brands can take some responsibility for Delph).

To his credit though, Holgate has said he's only here still because of Brands. We have seen DCL emerge as a first team striker. These DOF's will chat with the managers about all the players so only fair he gets his dues for it and he obvioulsy is looking for talent with Branthwaite coming in, all be it I dont think he would have expected him to be fast tracked.

I'm on the fence for now, plenty of negatives and positives for Brands, in 2/3 years time there has to be a pros/cons list that is heavily weighted to pros though. Whether that be incoming signings being effective, youth players recruited, being ready for first team etc.
 

andy4efc

Player Valuation: £70m
The Henry think was even more perplexing than "he couldn't get a work permit" because he moved from Anderlecht(?) in the last year he needed to get residence in Belgium. All he had to do was stay there for another year and he was an EU citizen. Bam, work permit. But they/he moved from Belgium for some absolute inexplicable reason. I get they weren't happy with how that club handled his injury but that just made everything a giant waste of time.

Yeah did seem odd, maybe Anderlecht didnt want or coulnt afford to have him back and he wouldn't go elsewhere in Belgium. We possibly thought he would get the caps for Nigeria to make it a moot point anyway?

We made money on him though os it wasn't a complete waste. I do think he would have been useful for us now as well which is a shame.
 
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Abraders

Player Valuation: £70m
The Henry think was even more perplexing than "he couldn't get a work permit" because he moved from Anderlecht(?) in the last year he needed to get residence in Belgium. All he had to do was stay there for another year and he was an EU citizen. Bam, work permit. But they/he moved from Belgium for some absolute inexplicable reason. I get they weren't happy with how that club handled his injury but that just made everything a giant waste of time.
I thought they messed about with the injury purposefully so that he wouldn't get a working permit and therefore they thought they be able to keep hold of him longer? Not sure
 

Tin-Tin

Player Valuation: £70m
I thought they messed about with the injury purposefully so that he wouldn't get a working permit and therefore they thought they be able to keep hold of him longer? Not sure

Yes, apparently Everton said he was ok to keep playing and Anderlecht said he wasnt so he missed games due to injury then missed the WC call up as a result. That meant he wouldnt qualify for a permit and he then said he wouldnt return to Anderlecht as he felt they purposely harmed his chances of going to the WC just so they could keep him an extra year.
 

Neiler

Player Valuation: £70m
Oh I'd say you're right we probably did have a better squad. It feels like some of our squad have just fallen of a cliff in terms of ability and energy which hasn't helped as well though. Coleman's slowed down (expectedly), Walcott, whle not brilliant is definately better than he has showed this season, Siggy's legs have absolutely been chopped off. Our right side has been abysmal this season.

With regards to the players being moved on. I dont think there is a right or wrong answer (particularly with Gana). A 29 year old is coming to the end of his career. Do you keep and value his contribution for the next 2 seasons at £30m? or do you take the money knowing it's the last opportunity to do so. I can see merits in both keeping and selling him so I dont blame him for it, even if we are weaker now due to a combination of poor recruitment (Delph) and unfortunate injury (Gbamin) (thats where Brands can take some responsibility for Delph).

To his credit though, Holgate has said he's only here still because of Brands. We have seen DCL emerge as a first team striker. These DOF's will chat with the managers about all the players so only fair he gets his dues for it and he obvioulsy is looking for talent with Branthwaite coming in, all be it I dont think he would have expected him to be fast tracked.

I'm on the fence for now, plenty of negatives and positives for Brands, in 2/3 years time there has to be a pros/cons list that is heavily weighted to pros though. Whether that be incoming signings being effective, youth players recruited, being ready for first team etc.

Good post mate, like i say im neither all in or all out. I think his decisions were poor last year Squad 18/19 vs Squad 19/20 and they need to be questioned.

Im really interested in the Gana concpet and i think this is a philosophical question we need to ask ourselves, it expands on @catcherintherye point in regard to money ball and value. There are two ways of looking at value.

1). The value of the deal in the context of a 29 year was to good to turn down.

I think that is subjective, you could look at secondary losses its brought - with a midfield would we have won more games, been higher up the table competed fro Europe?

2) The value of the player to the squad? Gana may have been 29, but he was worth a lot to us as it has proved, as Catcher was saying value isnt always about money - its what the value is to the team. So a 29 year old midfielder might be invaluable if it enables the team to get results. The value to the team is high. Its like Grealish or Zaha, both aren't worth 100 million, but probably worth 100 million to Villa and Palace.

Allan of course is the contradiction, if we sign him, last summer we were saying we couldn't turn down 30 million for a 29 years old midfielder Vs this summer we are saying a 29 year old specialist midfield player for a similar price is value. Its very contradictory.

It all comes down to catchers point about how judge and your concept of value.
 
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Azza

Player Valuation: £70m


Think I know why this come about now.

From Boyland at The Athletic

As a result of the review, Carlo Jacomuzzi, the club’s chief scout in Italy, now also oversees the Balkans region — countries including Croatia, Serbia and Bosnia.


We all know how Jacomuzzi likes to speak to the press about players and possible transfers. No wonder Brands shipped him off to the middle of nowhere.
 

Baines' left foot

Player Valuation: £70m
I was joking mate, I hate selling our best players.

People look at Liverpool and Coutinho and think it can work.

Liverpool were in a favourable position for starters and had a way of playing that could get by without a flair Player due to their freaks at full back.

We can’t afford to do another Lukaku we really can’t.
Pah, speak for yourself! I for one and glad trampoline shins has gone and we’ve spread the goals around.
 

Stephenlloyd

Player Valuation: £35m
Don't listen to his podcasts, he personifies doom and gloom. Said the same last year that we haven't a pot to pi$$ in and we Kean, Iwobi, Gbamin, Gomes and Delph... without getting rid of our garbage (Sandro, Bolasie, Tosun, Besic, Garbutt, Niasse, Martina, etc).

As if Carlo, who had plans to take a break from the game, decided to jump back in with the promise of sell to buy, and work is magic on turning Tom Davies into Pirlo, Theo Walcott into an actual winger who does anything productive and Gylfi Sigurdsson into a box-to-box midfield general. LOL.

Carlo will get £100m+ - i have no doubt about it. We have already saved £20m a year in wages getting rid of some of the garbage. Keep the faith; ignore the Esk - the man hasn't a clue!
Yes I don’t listen anymore mate. Or follow him on twitter

I didn’t mind the early business matters podcasts, with Armstrong and Blain. But can’t bothered listening to theEsk anymore.

it was about a year ago that John Blain had a little go at theEsk On a podcast about him saying we wouldn’t spend a penny last summer. When the debt was 34mil and could have been more with Zouma.
 

catcherintherye

Player Valuation: £70m
The last bit about Liverpool.

That for me was the problem with Koeman relentlessly pursuing Sigurdsson and not commiting half the costs on the rising Maddison instead.

At the time Gylfi was the better player, but cost an absolute premium and had hit his ceiling. This then leaves us with an expensive player who has regressed and has no resale value. Bad business all round. I think you need to occasionally bring in an old, established head, but our transfers have been so scatter-gun with no obvious plan for improvement as a team.

Yes very well put. I see that as Zaha last year as well. Palace now considering £30m. If that comes down a bit more, south of £25m, suddenly the same player might be a value driven buy.
 

andy4efc

Player Valuation: £70m
Good post mate, like i say im neither all in or all out. I think his decisions were poor las year Spquad vs Squad and they need t obe questioned.

Im really interested in the Gana things and i think this is a philosophical question we need to ask ourselves, it expands on Catchers point in regard to money ball and value. There are two ways of looking at value.

1). The value of the deal in the context of a 29 year was to good to turn down.

I think that is subjective, you could look at secondary losses its brought - with a midfield would we have won more games, been higher up the table competed fro Europe?

2) The value of the player to the squad? Gana may have been 29, but he was worth a lot to us, as catcher was saying value isnt always about money - its what the value is to the team. So a 29 year old midfielder might be invaluable if it enables the team. The value to the team is high. Its like Grealish or Zaha, both arent worth 100 million, but probably worth 100 million to Villa and Palace.

Allan of course is the contradiction, if we sign him, last summer we were saying we couldn't turn down 30 million for a 29 years old Vs this summer we are saying a 29 year old specialist player in tha position is value. Its very contradictory.

It all comes down to catchers point about how judge and your concept of value.

Absolute correct, as I say, no right or wrong answer, hell sometimes both can be right and both can be wrong. Thing is, lets say we kept Gana last summer, would Carlo be desperate for the experience and quality that Allan will bring? The answer is probably not. So he's come in, looked at the squad and said 'We need X quality and traits and says I know just the man (Allan).

A change in manager naturally can bring a change in strategy. Personally think we said to Gana give us one more year or the rest of the season before PSG, and we stuck to our word, like we did with Stones, Lukaku. The most underlying problem we are having, is the change of managers. Brands said himself he was reluctant to remove Silva (before the sacking) as he believes consistency is a key part of success and changing brings instability, which is right, it does. Every time we change manager, our 'philosophy' and strategy has to change to match, OR we keep the same philosophy and hire a manager to fit into that framework.

Koeman and Walsh made an absolute mess of things. So we then hire Allardyce to stabilise things, we give him £50m and sign two distinctly poor players, one of whom has had a good career but is on the back end of it and isn't improving). We then, as planned get rid of Allardyce.

We then appoint Brands and Silva, Brands has to clean up the mess made by Koeman, and then furtehr down the line we have Tosun who we cant shift and Walcott who is overpaid, not effective and probably couldn't shift if we wanted to due to a lack of right sided players. We have an average season under Silva, but plenty of promise being shown towards the back end of the season. Great, things looking up, Richy looks a mpalyer, Digne has had a great season and we shopuld go and build on it. Do we build on it effectively? Not really. We then, after 15/16 months of having ANOTHER regime in charge, change manager again, this time one that is worth the change. He comes in and clearly, half this squda aren't up to it so it's ANOTHER rebuilding job, because the mess that has been made from the previous regime.

We need consistency desperately ranging from who the manager is, how he wants to set up and who he wants in. Since we are clearly working the way of the manager setting the style and the DOF working off that, we NOW need to give Ancelotti four years, have Brands work with him and have that stability long-term. Players that come in suit what Ancelotti needs. If we do that, we will be much stronger in four years I have no doubt, but we have got to stop changing things every 18 months because it ends up with the squad we have of different players, suited to different things and different styles.

Gylfi for me is a good example? Is he an awful footballer? No. Is he suited to playing fully central in a 2? No. Put him like a second striker role and he'll do better. Walcott? He stays wide but CA likes his Wide players to roam inside. Not suited (He can stll be useful from the bench, but not primarily starting). Holgate and Keane, different defenders, Holgate will be fine palying higher up but Keane isn't suited to it. I dont believe Davies is suited to any style. Bernard? In theory he should be ideal for CA, cutting in from the left, finding space, but has disappointed. Iwobi? Suited to CA? I doubt it, he doesnt fancy him at all.

Sorry for the long post, but when you delve into just how much change has happened at the club in the past 5/6/7/8 years, it shows just how obvious that change isn't helping the club by doing it every 18 months. I may have disgressed from the original point @Neiler
 

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