End for Unsworth?

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Well he's 19 years old and if it's still a long way off it's never going to happen so we might as well bin him off now. I say get him in now and give him time to gain experience and at 19 he'll be allowed a few mistakes but leave it another few years and he's 22 or 23 he won't have that luxury.
Well ok, we obviously disagree on Simms. For me he’s different from any other player, didn’t have the natural skills of Gordon for instance and the coaches , including Unsworth now , have worked hard with him and he’s responded. He’s on a gradual but continuing upward curve, nobody should be written off at 19 and I am confident he’s got more improvements in him , let’s see where that leads.
 
Well ok, we obviously disagree on Simms. For me he’s different from any other player, didn’t have the natural skills of Gordon for instance and the coaches , including Unsworth now , have worked hard with him and he’s responded. He’s on a gradual but continuing upward curve, nobody should be written off at 19 and I am confident he’s got more improvements in him , let’s see where that leads.

If you look at any other half decent striker in the league now! They were not playing under 23 football at 19! They were playing in the mens game.
DCL had made his Everton debut by now as well as appearances for Sheffield United & a loan at Stalybridge, and he's been a slow learner.

Moise Kean still has alot to learn yet he had played a full Serie A Season at Verona & a bit part season at Juve by this time

Even look at bang average strikers like Troy Deeny - he was playing week in week out for Walsall younger than Simms
Danny Welbeck was getting minutes at Preston at 19.

I challenge anyone to find me a premier league forward who wasen't playing men's football of some sort at Ellis Simm's age!

I'm not writing the lad off, its more criticism of Unsworth's 'He needs to learn how to run the channels' way of things.
i'd argue its selfish of him to keep him here for the second half of the season, a league 2 side would of given him 10 games between now and the end of the season
 
If you look at any other half decent striker in the league now! They were not playing under 23 football at 19! They were playing in the mens game.
DCL had made his Everton debut by now as well as appearances for Sheffield United & a loan at Stalybridge, and he's been a slow learner.

Moise Kean still has alot to learn yet he had played a full Serie A Season at Verona & a bit part season at Juve by this time

Even look at bang average strikers like Troy Deeny - he was playing week in week out for Walsall younger than Simms
Danny Welbeck was getting minutes at Preston at 19.

I challenge anyone to find me a premier league forward who wasen't playing men's football of some sort at Ellis Simm's age!

I'm not writing the lad off, its more criticism of Unsworth's 'He needs to learn how to run the channels' way of things.
i'd argue its selfish of him to keep him here for the second half of the season, a league 2 side would of given him 10 games between now and the end of the season
Will World Cup winning, multiple club trophy winning, 100 capped French international, Olivier Giroud do as an example, or do you want someone better?
 

If you look at any other half decent striker in the league now! They were not playing under 23 football at 19! They were playing in the mens game.
DCL had made his Everton debut by now as well as appearances for Sheffield United & a loan at Stalybridge, and he's been a slow learner.

Moise Kean still has alot to learn yet he had played a full Serie A Season at Verona & a bit part season at Juve by this time

Even look at bang average strikers like Troy Deeny - he was playing week in week out for Walsall younger than Simms
Danny Welbeck was getting minutes at Preston at 19.

I challenge anyone to find me a premier league forward who wasen't playing men's football of some sort at Ellis Simm's age!

I'm not writing the lad off, its more criticism of Unsworth's 'He needs to learn how to run the channels' way of things.
i'd argue its selfish of him to keep him here for the second half of the season, a league 2 side would of given him 10 games between now and the end of the season
Players progress at different rates.
Simms has probably always found under age football relatively easy because of his size and athleticism.
When playing adult football those attributes are not the advantage they were anymore and he has to develop other parts of his game. I am sure that is what is happening to him at present.

What is probably not known yet is what standard the finished product will be able to play.
 
Players progress at different rates.
Simms has probably always found under age football relatively easy because of his size and athleticism.
When playing adult football those attributes are not the advantage they were anymore and he has to develop other parts of his game. I am sure that is what is happening to him at present.

What is probably not known yet is what standard the finished product will be able to play.

You have contradicted yourself there because he is not playing adult football yet you have said 'I am sure that is what is happening to him at present'

Its an ongoing theme that players in our u23s stagnate as they are 'tutored' by Unsworth.

At 18 Morgan Feeney was playing every game for the under 23s and even getting the occasional first team appearance captaining England under 19s. 3 years on at 21 years old he has just gone out on his first loan spell. That 19-21 gap is vital for a players development and the u23 league and PE teacher like Unsworth just dosent help.

Dennis Adiniran made his professional league debut for Fulham at 17, 4 years later he is still playing for Everton under 23s, he should of had maximum 2 years playing at that level and then loaned out, Unsworth has kept hold of him again? Why?

Matty Foulds made an appearance for Bury in 2015 5 years ago!!!! He's now 22 and still not even had a sniff of going anywhere on loan

Nathan Markelo - a dutch under 20 international signed at 18 years old, ideal for a loan back to the Eredivise at some point? Nope! We have an important under 23 game coming up and he is on the slowest performance programme set by Unsworth ever! Is now 21 and not a sniff of a profesional appearance anywere

Lewis Gibson who was part of a successful England under 17 world cup winning team was the last outfield player in that squad to make his professional debut, thats not because he wasent good enough! 3 years in the under23s, and he only got his loan because he played hard ball with his contract!

Its not just that these lads are stagnating staying in the u23s for 3 or more seasons, they are also blocking the path for the under 18s who come through for atleast 12 months! Einer Iverson should be playing every single game for the under 23s but he's got 22 year olds blocking that path - he's played 6 games, joe Anderson is 19 but has Foulds keeping him from progressing or atleast having the opportunity.

And the ones that do come through early like kyle John & Ryan Astley are already in the Morgan Feeney zone of having played atleast 3 seasons at under 23 level but not wanting to be risked to send out on loan!

Its all abit of a mess!
 
Will World Cup winning, multiple club trophy winning, 100 capped French international, Olivier Giroud do as an example, or do you want someone better?

Olivier Giroud born 30th September 1986
Professional debut 27 March 2006

Dont know how your calculator works, but for me that makes him 19 years 6 months
 
If you look at any other half decent striker in the league now! They were not playing under 23 football at 19! They were playing in the mens game.
DCL had made his Everton debut by now as well as appearances for Sheffield United & a loan at Stalybridge, and he's been a slow learner.

Moise Kean still has alot to learn yet he had played a full Serie A Season at Verona & a bit part season at Juve by this time

Even look at bang average strikers like Troy Deeny - he was playing week in week out for Walsall younger than Simms
Danny Welbeck was getting minutes at Preston at 19.

I challenge anyone to find me a premier league forward who wasen't playing men's football of some sort at Ellis Simm's age!

I'm not writing the lad off, its more criticism of Unsworth's 'He needs to learn how to run the channels' way of things.
i'd argue its selfish of him to keep him here for the second half of the season, a league 2 side would of given him 10 games between now and the end of the season
Olivier Giroud born 30th September 1986
Professional debut 27 March 2006

Dont know how your calculator works, but for me that makes him 19 years 6 months
Better than yours it would seem, seeing as Ellis Simms is only 19 years and one month old.
 

Better than yours it would seem, seeing as Ellis Simms is only 19 years and one month old.

So do you think Ellis Simms will make his professional debut in the next 5 months?
Or do you think we will see another article from Unsworth saying that they are working hard with him at the training ground but he's still got a long way to go?
 
If you look at any other half decent striker in the league now! They were not playing under 23 football at 19! They were playing in the mens game.
DCL had made his Everton debut by now as well as appearances for Sheffield United & a loan at Stalybridge, and he's been a slow learner.

Moise Kean still has alot to learn yet he had played a full Serie A Season at Verona & a bit part season at Juve by this time

Even look at bang average strikers like Troy Deeny - he was playing week in week out for Walsall younger than Simms
Danny Welbeck was getting minutes at Preston at 19.

I challenge anyone to find me a premier league forward who wasen't playing men's football of some sort at Ellis Simm's age!

I'm not writing the lad off, its more criticism of Unsworth's 'He needs to learn how to run the channels' way of things.
i'd argue its selfish of him to keep him here for the second half of the season, a league 2 side would of given him 10 games between now and the end of the season

He's retired now but Ian Wright is a great example.
 
A very long way haha it doesn't happen often especially these days with academys etc but it does happen. Vardy an example?

He was the first player i thought of as that sort of example, to be fair at 19 he was at Stockbridge Park Steels so although thats men's level, i would hardly call it a good level.
My point being, players at 19 who tend to go on and develop properly, tend to be playing some sort of men's football, not the security of an under 23s/ under 21s/B team!
Id maybe say the tide is turning if we look to get Simms a loan next season, but past examples show that we dont really do that! we will keep them to long, stagnate abit, then loan them out!
 

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