Donald Trump for President Thread

[tsubaki]

There simply aren't enough smart Americans to satisfy the needs of global tech firms.

... and there never will be, whilst they continue to seek smart people who work really hard for bobbins and who don't enjoy the security of a family network in the US.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Blimey! This wall idea actually real then???

I thought it was just some nut case rhetoric ffs!

It actually does exist in many places already; mostly those that are uncontrolled stretches of desert. Not all of the idea is bad, just the scaremongering as policy part.

 

[ilikecheese]

Perhaps it would - if those tech firms encouraged cheaper education here (or in the US) rather than evade taxes and look to import cheaper, less secure labour from abroad. A situation where students here are getting into tens (hundreds, in some case) of grand debt and then have to compete against people who do not have that hanging around their necks is not fair.

False statement. They are not paying these employees any less than they pay for an American. In fact, one could argue they are paying more because of the attorney fees needed to get those folks into the country. My friend is set to be an equity partner in her firm...she's about to be a millionaire.

 

[tsubaki]

If the choices are:

1) Status quo
2) Building walls
3) Campaign for immigration reform that works until we get laws that make sense

Then #2 is still never the right choice

(3) isn't an option, though. It is not being mentioned at any kind of serious level here, in Europe, or in the US.

 

[tsubaki]

False statement. They are not paying these employees any less than they pay for an American. In fact, one could argue they are paying more because of the attorney fees needed to get those folks into the country. My friend is set to be an equity partner in her firm...she's about to be a millionaire.

It is not a false statement. If they had to recruit only from US citizens, wages would be higher than they are now because of the economic pressures within the US (ie: a shortage of tech sector graduates, graduates with high levels of student debt, higher costs of living in California etc).

 

[SerenityNigh]

(3) isn't an option, though. It is not being mentioned at any kind of serious level here, in Europe, or in the US.

Make it an option then.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.​

 

[BigDunc'sFod]

I've yet to hear another solution. Apart from let illegals in. Which is not a solution, it's failure.

How is the wall going to stop them from coming over here on holiday then mate?

 

[SNova]

Reworking our immigration laws to make it easier for folks to get into the country is not a solution? I completely disagree with you that it would be 'failure'...it would be exactly what this country has always stood for.

There are thousands of people with educations and training that get turned away every month by our laws. My friend the attorney has to jump through hoops to get engineers from abroad legally working in the Silicon Valley. Our education system simply isn't meeting the demands of the tech world.

The goal of the wall is to reduce illegal immigration. Your solution is to allow more legal immigration. You don't see that as a failure to reduce immigration?

I'm not asking you how to increase immigration, I'm asking how you would decrease it. By the way I doubt the illegal Mexicans are highly skilled.

Take it out of the foreign aid budget.

We already have "controlled immigration." What Trump's purporting might be on that spectrum as well, but it's not acceptable to me. If you think it's a lawless free-for-all currently, you've be mesmerized by the rhetoric.

Of course there are laws in place. Trump is simply trying to enforce the law.

 

[Pettifogger]

I think I agree on all points. Maybe you'd disagree with me on the conclusions, but it seems to me that:

1) Mexicans aren't a national security threat and aren't actually all rapists, as Trump suggests
2) Cartels are a serious security threat, but (a) are known and (b) not easily controlled by walls or laws
3) Terrorists will be stopped by policing and policies, not inanimate walls
4) Walls are build to exclude and shame, and do little else

So the wall then: it's a silly, symbolic gesture that does nothing to protect the US nor its neighbors.

Not sure we're aligned to that extent. I think a wall can certainly be effective. It won't be impenetrable, and I think it's a huge undertaking that isn't a top priority at this instant. Hence, I'm not opposed to a wall in theory, but it's far down my list of 2016 issues.

#4 I don't agree with, although to the extent a wall's purpose is to exclude/shame, I can't say I care much with regard to those not here. Not to be callous, but if a wall is in our best interest, I don't care about the feelings of others. Danger or livelihood of others, maybe, but not the emotional response.

 

[BigDunc'sFod]

The goal of the wall is to reduce illegal immigration. Your solution is to allow more legal immigration. You don't see that as a failure to reduce immigration?

I'm not asking you how to increase immigration, I'm asking how you would decrease it.

You do realise you're that immigration as a whole versus illegal immigration are two separate things, right?

 

[LinekersLegs]

... and there never will be, whilst they continue to seek smart people who work really hard for bobbins and who don't enjoy the security of a family network in the US.

Hubby works for a major tech firm here in Bay Area and is involved in a lot of recruitment. There is a genuine difficulty in getting Americans with the necessary skills and aptitude. The time consuming and costly immigration/visa process alone would make it preferential to recruit Americans but there just aren't enough. It isn't a cost issue, at least not in his firm.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Of course there are laws in place. Trump is simply trying to enforce the law.

Big walls = law enforcement?

 

[bobbydigital]

Blimey! This wall idea actually real then???

I thought it was just some nut case rhetoric ffs!

You might enjoy this take on it

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2016...wall-plan-with-waffle-irons/#livefyre-comment

“If the main thing it’s going to get us is a warm sense of satisfaction inside, then I suggest instead of building that wall, we use the money to buy every man, woman and child in America a Palmer Waffle Iron.”

These breakfast-makers cost approximately $75 apiece, leaving the United States at least $1 billion left over.

“I know what you’re thinking: ‘John, this is a stupid idea,’” said Oliver. “But is it? Is it really? Yes, obviously, it is. But is it significantly stupider than Donald Trump’s wall? Because, this waffle-iron plan will cost less, it will do nearly as much to keep out immigrants and drugs, it won’t harm our relationship with our third-largest trading partner. If it is racist, it’s only toward Belgians, and unlike Donald Trump’s wall, this makes f—ing waffles! So come on, America! Let’s ask ourselves, what kind of country do we want to wake up to? One that spends billions on an impossible, impractical symbol of fear? Or one that smells like breakfast? Exactly!”

 

[SNova]

You do realise you're that immigration as a whole versus illegal immigration are two separate things, right?

Yes. Do you?

Big walls = law enforcement?

If it upholds a law, yes?

 

[ilikecheese]

The goal of the wall is to reduce illegal immigration. Your solution is to allow more legal immigration. You don't see that as a failure to reduce immigration?

I'm not asking you how to increase immigration, I'm asking how you would decrease it. By the way I doubt the illegal Mexicans are highly skilled.

Why would I want us to decrease our immigrants?

Unskilled immigrants are very important as well. Throughout the history of this country it has been unskilled immigrants who have done the dirty work in building and maintaining the country. The Mexican's of today are no different than the Chinese when we were building a transcontinental railroad.