Derby - Win, Lose or Draw ?

[Goat]

Wigan have a team of foreigners and tend to turn them over easy enough.

I think there's a fear there though, yes. I'd say that defo plays a part.

Fear defo plays a part, play the players, not the Club, infact that should be Moyes team talk.

 

[GoatJR]

The following have scored 4 or more league goals in the Derby. This includes FA Premier League matches, its predecessor the Football League First Division, FA Cup, League Cup and Charity Shield. The Screen Sport Super Cup goals are also included for Rush and Sharp, although this was a competition which was not high on Liverpool or Everton's agenda. This list is up to and including 14 April 2012.


Nation Player Club(s) League FA Cup League
Cup Charity
Shield Screen
Sport Overall Years
Ian Rush Liverpool 13 5 1 1 5 25 1980–87,1988–96
William "Dixie" Dean Everton 18 1 19 1925–37
Alex "Sandy" Young Everton 9 3 12 1901–11
Harry Chambers Liverpool 8 8 1915–28
Jimmy Settle Everton 8 8 1899–1908
Steven Gerrard Liverpool 7 1 8 1998 – present
Jack Parkinson Liverpool 6 2 8 1903–14
Peter Beardsley Liverpool/Everton 4/1 2/0 7 1987–91 (L), 1991–93 (E)
Graeme Sharp Everton 4 2 1 7 1980–91
Jack Balmer Liverpool 6 6 1935–52
Robbie Fowler Liverpool 6 6 1992–2001, 2006–07
Bobby Parker Everton 6 6 1913–22
Gordon Hodgson Liverpool 5 1 6 1925–36
Tim Cahill Everton 5 5 2004–12
Kenny Dalglish Liverpool 5 5 1977–90
Fred Howe Liverpool 5 5 1935–38
Jack Taylor Everton 5 5 1896–1910
Dirk Kuyt Liverpool 5 5 2006–12
Roger Hunt Liverpool 4 1 5 1958–69
Duncan Ferguson Everton 4 4 1994–98, 2000–06
Tommy Lawton Everton 4 4 1936–39
Michael Owen Liverpool 4 4 1997–2004
Sam Raybould Liverpool 4 4 1900–07
Roy Vernon Everton 4 4 1960–65

Current scorers: Liverpool's Steven Gerrard is the leading scorer of players currently playing for either team, some distance ahead of other current players with derby goals to their credit, namely Liverpool's Luis Suárez and Andy Carroll with 2 each, and Everton's Sylvain Distin and Nikica Jelavić with 1 goal each.

 

[steken1]

There's a lot of really talented managers working in places like Chile and Spain who would walk over hot coals for the kind of spending power, wages and exposure a big EPL team can offer.

The only question mark is culture shock and language, really.

I agree that £3.25m talks to a lot managers out there. But could they come over here and overturn the £100m+ deficit that Moyes has been trying to overturn?

Even Wengers failed miserably since the real big influx of money.

For me only a future great will be able to. A man who will become a Wenger, Ferguson, Mourihno of his time. That said I'm equally certain that a bolder man with a different mentality would have brought us at least one cup over the course of Moyes time.

 

[ianefc]

Ottmar Hitzfeld, Otto Rehhagel, Felix Magath, Jorge Sampaoli, Dick Advocaat, Louis van Gaal, Manuel Pellegrini etc are all massively successful football coaches who have recently worked at relatively unsuccessful clubs. Why couldn't we attract someone of that stature given we pay the ninth or tenth best managerial wages in the world?

Fair enough I dont know all that much about many of them names but, if they are that good then surely with the 'managerial merry-go-round' that is the EPL why have none of them been given a chance in our league? there has to e a reason, chelsea, RS, city, spurs, villa have all had a lot of changes and none of the 'massively successful' managers have been given the chance.

 

[Goat]

Wish the Derby was tomorrow me like.

 

[ianefc]

Wish the Derby was tomorrow me like.

I dont with felli and gibbo injured at the MO give them the rest time they need 2 weeks on sunday will do ;-)

 

[steken1]

Never mind failure to win trophies, is there any decent theory why he's so shit at the Derby? I've mentioned that his record compared to our other managers who've had longevity isn't good because they didn't face (apart from HKI + II reign) vast investment disparities. But that only gets you so far when you think of the way Liverpool have pretty much wasted that advantage.

They never really though. This is the first time in a long time they haven't got a genuine world class player who can change a game on his own.

They never spent enough to really trouble the Chelsea's and Man Utd's but they spent enough to be well clear of the group we were in.

Moyes has an inferiority complex around money and reputation IMO. He's not the only one by any stretch.

 

[Allezfan]

There has to e a reason, chelsea, RS, city, spurs, villa have all had a lot of changes and none of the 'massively successful' managers have been given the chance.

English football is so insular, chairmen would rather go for an Allardyce or a Lambert who 'know the league' than the guy who's won the norwegian league or finished 4th in la liga, or won the uefa cup with a team from the ukraine. It's the same way that it's so much cheaper to buy Pienaar from Germany and Arteta from Spain than Henderson and Carrol from England.

There's more than twenty mangers in the world and more than twenty mangerial positions is my point.

 

[steken1]

Ottmar Hitzfeld, Otto Rehhagel, Felix Magath, Jorge Sampaoli, Dick Advocaat, Louis van Gaal, Manuel Pellegrini etc are all massively successful football coaches who have recently worked at relatively unsuccessful clubs. Why couldn't we attract someone of that stature given we pay the ninth or tenth best managerial wages in the world?

How many of them have taken those unsuccessful clubs onto success?

Not trying to catch you out cos I don't know the answer, genuinely curious. For me a lot of managers are lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time.

 

[ianefc]

English football is so insular, chairmen would rather go for an Allardyce or a Lambert who 'know the league' than the guy who's won the norwegian league or finished 4th in la liga, or won the uefa cup with a team from the ukraine. It's the same way that it's so much cheaper to buy Pienaar from Germany and Arteta from Spain than Henderson and Carrol from England.

There's more than twenty mangers in the world and more than twenty mangerial positions is my point.

bollox not one of the clubs I mentioned would go for a Allardyce or a Lambert

EDIT: other than Villa

 

[Allezfan]

How many of them have taken those unsuccessful clubs onto success?

Not trying to catch you out cos I don't know the answer, genuinely curious. For me a lot of managers are lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time.

Magath won the league with Wolfsburg but has since gone mad and is doing pretty poorly. Rehhagel won the euros with greece but his last job was at herta where he had half a season to keep them up and failed. Hitzfeld walked the swiss league with Zurich and is doing a decent if not spectacular job with the swiss national team (beating spain in 2010 for example). Sampaoli has turned Universaid into one of the best teams in south america. Advocaat didn't do much with az but won the uefa with zenit. van Gaal won the league with AZ. Pellegrini guided malaga to the Cl.

I would add the likes of Baxter, García Plaza, Ignacio Martínez and Cuper to that too. As managers with excellent records at smallish clubs outside english football.

 

[ianefc]

Magath won the league with Wolfsburg but has since gone mad and is doing pretty poorly. Rehhagel won the euros with greece but his last job was at herta where he had half a season to keep them up and failed. Hitzfeld walked the swiss league with Zurich and is doing a decent if not spectacular job with the swiss national team (beating spain in 2010 for example). Sampaoli has turned Universaid into one of the best temas in south america. Advocaat didn't do much with az but won the uefa with zenit. van Gaal won the league with AZ. Pellegrini guided malaga to the Cl.

May aswell throw in Scolari who won the World Cup where is he now, I'm sure he has just been sacked AGAIN

 

[Allezfan]

bollox not one of the clubs I mentioned would go for a Allardyce or a Lambert

EDIT: other than Villa

RS went for Rodgers and Hodgson, mate.

 

[steken1]

Magath won the league with Wolfsburg but has since gone mad and is doing pretty poorly. Rehhagel won the euros with greece but his last job was at herta where he had half a season to keep them up and failed. Hitzfeld walked the swiss league with Zurich and is doing a decent if not spectacular job with the swiss national team (beating spain in 2010 for example). Sampaoli has turned Universaid into one of the best teams in south america. Advocaat didn't do much with az but won the uefa with zenit. van Gaal won the league with AZ. Pellegrini guided malaga to the Cl.

I would add the likes of Baxter, García Plaza, Ignacio Martínez and Cuper to that too. As managers with excellent records at smallish clubs outside english football.

I think Pellegrini may do something in our league. What he achieved with Villareal was pretty special.

 

[ianefc]

RS went for Rodgers and Hodgson, mate.

well they have worked wonders