Current Body of work - Ancelotti and Moyes

[Coggy]

Could you begin by explaining when David Moyes was successful here please?

Easy one that mate.
Look at the financials , and his actual spend. Try and name , any managers that could have consistently delivered the level of league placings that he did , at this or any other club . Any idiot can fluke a cup run now and then. But consistent league runs without a pot to **** in , were unbelievable.

 

[matty1878]

Moyes? Over carlo? Wow I mean wow.

I hope Carlo quits and we get Gary megson

and that will shut you up.

 

[blue to the bone]

Who gives a toss. Blokes been gone for years

Spot on.
More mentions of moyes then kendal or Catterick.

 

[evertony]

Moyes would 100% have us sh1tter

Corrected it for you TT

 

[johnjoeefc]

I think in a way, mad knee jerk posts like this always make me feel better after a horrific performance.
We have the best manager I’ve ever seen managing the blues and Moshiri ready to back him whatever the situation is for next season so we will improve again, rather than Moyes with a glass ceiling and a skint Bill.

Of course moyes hit a glass ceiling. He had to sell his best players every season. If you did that to any team they won't progress yet he still consistently kept Everton in and around the top. Again moyes is proving at west ham that he can maximise what he can get out of whats available.

I wouldn't say Moyes is necessarily 'a better manager than ancelotti' but he's probably more suited to managing us right now than ancelotti is, although I could see carlos reasoning for his selection against Fulham. Although considering how the game played out I would have like him to have been far quicker to deal with it than he was

 

[Glasshalffull]

Spot on.
More mentions of moyes then kendal or Catterick.

Well neither Kendal nor Catterick is currently a premier league manager, unless God had got his own league going up there. Moyes is a current manager, and we know him, so he just might be useful as a yardstick, which is the intent of this discussion, I think.

The argument could be made that Moyes got us competing at around the European spots, funded by 87p and a bag of crisps, and now seems to be doing the sane at West Ham. Carlo has a team that cost a fortune and is doing worse than West Ham, and is only entertaining in fits and starts. (Just as an aside, I think it was a defeat to Moyes' Everton that got Carlo fired from Chelsea).

Certainly, it's early days for Carlo, and not his fault that he's saddled with iffy players that cost a load of money, but I still think that an occasional glance over at West Ham might be helpful in actually assessing Carlo's performance, rather than some people holding a fanatical belief that the sun shines out of his posterior regions and he's some sort of deity.

 

[Thetigerblue]

Moyes? Over carlo? Wow I mean wow.

I hope Carlo quits and we get Gary megson

and that will shut you up.

Threads like this and elsewhere are unhinged. It’s like we want to lose for eternity. There’s a thread on another site with a comparison between Carlo and Sam Allardyce. And the idea that we’ve not improved, which tells me that they’ve never actually watched a game.

I get it was disappointing. I was disappointed and even angry. But if we win on Saturday then what?

 

[sd_1992]

Threads like this and elsewhere are unhinged. It’s like we want to lose for eternity. There’s a thread on another site with a comparison between Carlo and Sam Allardyce. And the idea that we’ve not improved, which tells me that they’ve never actually watched a game.

I get it was disappointing. I was disappointed and even angry. But if we win on Saturday then what?

I hate to break it to you but we aren’t going to win on Saturday and trying to highlight an unlikely imagined result as a way of saying the season hasn’t been bad rather highlights how bad it has been.
We have become a negative team with the creativity drilled out of us.
Honestly feels a bit like when Koeman was managing us, we are just lazy and slow and easy to beat by anyone who will put the effort in...

 

[canuckblue]

Easy one that mate.
Look at the financials , and his actual spend. Try and name , any managers that could have consistently delivered the level of league placings that he did , at this or any other club . Any idiot can fluke a cup run now and then. But consistent league runs without a pot to **** in , were unbelievable.

An argument based on spend sounds like one our neighbours would make. And not one that would elevate Moyes anywhere near Ancelotti. Carlo is so far above Moyes the ginger knifesmith would need a telescope to see him.

 

[blue to the bone]

Well neither Kendal nor Catterick is currently a premier league manager, unless God had got his own league going up there. Moyes is a current manager, and we know him, so he just might be useful as a yardstick, which is the intent of this discussion, I think.

The argument could be made that Moyes got us competing at around the European spots, funded by 87p and a bag of crisps, and now seems to be doing the sane at West Ham. Carlo has a team that cost a fortune and is doing worse than West Ham, and is only entertaining in fits and starts. (Just as an aside, I think it was a defeat to Moyes' Everton that got Carlo fired from Chelsea).

Certainly, it's early days for Carlo, and not his fault that he's saddled with iffy players that cost a load of money, but I still think that an occasional glance over at West Ham might be helpful in actually assessing Carlo's performance, rather than some people holding a fanatical belief that the sun shines out of his posterior regions and he's some sort of deity.

He is gone for nearly 9 years.
People keep bringing his name up. He's in our history and will remain there..
What West ham do has nothing to do with us .
When he was flopping at United, sociedad and Sunderland we still had people here fawning over him .

 

[riddick]

If Moyes finishes 5th or thereabouts he should win manager of the year, easily.

If Carlo finishes 5th or thereabouts nobody is going to even look his direction because that's what we hired Carlo Ancelotti to do.


It's not meant to be in support of Moyes or against Carlo, just stating the obvious. Moyes has a team that many picked to struggle big time in 5th. That's impressive by him. But nothing to do with Everton at all.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

They are very different managers. I am hopeful that Carlo can prove the critics wrong, and he has a proven track record of success.

That said, Moyes seems someone who is better at pulling off water to wine miracles by having players playing beyond their ability.

I would take finishing below West Ham if we won the cup, but I have a feeling we are going to, once again, end the season empty-handed.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

He’s improved upon Silva’s impending relegation, but he really has to do more than match Allardyce’s 8th place finish. Having said that, I don’t want the Europa League because it’s a load of crap.

Bugger that - the Europa is a great launchpad for further success. We need European football if we are going to be taken seriously.

The root of our issues to me is the model Moshiri has put in place. Brands is crap, and I prefer a manager to a head coach setup.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

If you look at West Ham's results, they're grinding out results against the bottom half with the occasional draw to top sides. They have a win against Leicester as their signature win, and otherwise have the odd draw against the traditional powers. Even if they made the Champions League, they'd finish bottom of the group.

We're regularly beating top teams but leaking points to the bottom half. We can compete, but we can't sustain the level we need to sustaim throughout the season.

One problem is in principle easier to fix than the other. The state of our club is better than the state of theirs. We're not at a place where we have the depth for consistency, which is sometimes leading to overtinkering in rotation by the manager, but this looks more fixable with a summer window or two than their situation does.

I am not sure I agree. We have a bloated squad, while Moyes has been taking a hatchet to their dead wood. His signings (Soucek, Bowen, Coufal, Lingard) are also operating at a better level to most of ours. Soucek looks like the best signing pound for pound in years.

Moyes' best quality has always been his eye for a player. West Ham also have a bit more financial muscle than he every had under Kenwright. It will be really quite interesting to see how we both develop over the next few years. We SHOULD be well clear of them, but I am still unconvinced at the viability of the approach we are taking. We just seem to burn money.

 

[Thetigerblue]

I hate to break it to you but we aren’t going to win on Saturday and trying to highlight an unlikely imagined result as a way of saying the season hasn’t been bad rather highlights how bad it has been.
We have become a negative team with the creativity drilled out of us.
Honestly feels a bit like when Koeman was managing us, we are just lazy and slow and easy to beat by anyone who will put the effort in...

I hate to break it to you but Liverpool managed to get beat by Brighton at Anfield.
Was the result against Spurs a performance that was lazy and slow?
Really?

I hate to break it to you but we aren’t going to win on Saturday and trying to highlight an unlikely imagined result as a way of saying the season hasn’t been bad rather highlights how bad it has been.
We have become a negative team with the creativity drilled out of us.
Honestly feels a bit like when Koeman was managing us, we are just lazy and slow and easy to beat by anyone who will put the effort in...

Liverpool. A team that managed to be beat by Burnley and Brighton at Anfield recently.
Everton. A team that managed to beat Spurs 5-4 last week in a sensational cup tie. Last week. ‘Negative and no creativity’.
I suggest you go and watch some Allardyce-era Everton matches then come back and tell us whether you think your comment actually still stands.