Computer games.

[DanEFC92]

[video=youtube;XVUYdPkFuMY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVUYdPkFuMY[/video]

 

[Brennan]

Cliffy B, former head of Epic Games thinks used games ruin the industry and Sony is just playing us for fools.
Cliffy B claims that it is impossible for used games and game rentals to co-exist in this world of massive marketing and production budgets.

Microsoft's decision to redefine the concept of "game ownership" and Sony's decision to ridicule that decision had many people praising the PS4 developer. Cliff "CliffyB" Bleszinski, former bigwig at Epic Games and creator of the Gears of War franchise, was not one of them. "You cannot have game and marketing budgets this high while also having used and rental games existing," he said via Twitter. "The numbers do NOT work people."

Cliffy B also thinks that Sony has its own used game solution up its sleeve and is just playing on the internet outrage for free PR. "You're all being played!" he warns us. Rumors that Sony's own machine would block used game sales in some way surfaced in the lead up to the PS4's reveal.

Bleszinkski went on to explain his stance, saying that games have gotten so big that there is just no way the next generation can survive if the used game and game rental markets keep taking a cut. "The visual fidelity and feature sets we expect from games now come with sky high costs," he says, "Assassins Creed games are made by thousands of devs."

The former dev also warns us that the day-one $60 disc-based model is crumbling. "Newsflash. This is why you're seeing free to play and microtransactions everywhere."

Pretty inflammatory statements, but then again, Cliffy B is not known for holding his tongue, having spoken out in favor of unpopular business strategies in the past.

Nonetheless, you can't argue with the success of man's games, and he is in no sense of the word a "bad dev." He does actually know what he's talking about, so maybe he is just saying the things we all don't want to hear, but know to be true?

.....

 

[Tubey]

.....

Nonsense - the publisher has to cater to demand. If people refuse to adopt the model he wants, then he has to adapt to provide the service people do want.

It's business 101. He's effectively saying the supplier should drive demand instead of the buyer, which is ludicrous.

 

[RFUS]

Nonsense - the publisher has to cater to demand. If people refuse to adopt the model he wants, then he has to adapt to provide the service people do want.

It's business 101. He's effectively saying the supplier should drive demand instead of the buyer, which is ludicrous.

I just don't like how it's the publishers telling to consumers how it's going to be. Look at music and film/TV -- both industries are subject to re-selling, sharing and piracy, like the games industry is. They now offer numerous different ways to use their content, without forcing you to do it one way like MS is attempting. I can use spotify, buy off Amazon, go to HMV (less so these days admittedly). I can stream off netflix, rent a dvd off lovefilm or pop to Tescos and pick up a DVD there. There are numerous options and this is a necessity for any industry that demands a high financial investment from the consumer. Not everyone is a middle class suburbian with a great internet connection and boatloads of spare income.

 

[njligernj]

quote from guy whose biggest title was published by Microsoft defends Microsoft

There are a few franchises which I never would have gotten into if not for used games. I tried them first used and then purchased new releases on day one.

People who work in tech are generally massive drama queens who love to take any slight change as harbinger of either doom or massive success. They act like they are the first industry in recorded history to have sales plateau.

 

[Little Ralphy]

Nonsense - the publisher has to cater to demand. If people refuse to adopt the model he wants, then he has to adapt to provide the service people do want.

It's business 101. He's effectively saying the supplier should drive demand instead of the buyer, which is ludicrous.

But if games aren't profitable then people won't develop them. If you stand to have rights over your game with Microsoft for future sell ons etc. then you effectively have more revenue streams and control over your product. If that were me, I’d be pushing the Microsoft version of my game, or even not developing it for Sony. People may say it’ll sell loads less cos everyone has a PS4, but how long would it take for those PS4 users to switch to Microsoft when they saw this happening, or for Sony to introduce something similar to Microsoft under pressure from developers? How much more profit would you make from initial 1st time sales on Sony compared to 2nd/3rd sales on Microsoft? (I honestly don’t know the answer to that last question). I’d guess it makes more sense for developers to sell electronic copies of their software rather than producing actual disks for the shops. I agreed with a lad a few pages back, Microsoft are in this for the long haul and may have played a blinder. Does anyone know how much the games are going to be? Will say a game like Fifa be the same price on both platforms? Or would Sony have to charge more, to bridge the 2nd hand sale gap?

Profit on second hand games is like agents in football taking money out and putting nothing in. As a developer you're going to want some of that profit. I honestly don’t see how it is any different to how software works in business, in that you buy a licence to use it, or how your itunes library works. You can’t lend your mate one of your itunes albums and then get it back from him next week.

This was a move that was always going to be made. The Sony vs Microsoft thing reminds me of when Affliction started up a rival MMA company to the UFC. They pandered to the hardcore fans and did everything they all wanted. Paid big name fighters fortunes etc. but it wasn’t sustainable and they went back to making t-shirts.

 

[Brennan]

Nonsense - the publisher has to cater to demand. If people refuse to adopt the model he wants, then he has to adapt to provide the service people do want.

It's business 101. He's effectively saying the supplier should drive demand instead of the buyer, which is ludicrous.

Erm, that's sort of the point Tubey. The public demand high quality games, which cost a lot of money to make. If gamers are buying used titles and not giving anything back to the developer, those titles can't be developed.

You want to know one of the reasons why so many games are FPS nowadays ? Because it's one of the few genres that is consistently profitable due to it's popularity.

Also laughing at people who think Sony a] didn't originally plan to do similar or b] won't do something similar down the line. In their original PS4 conference they made practically no reference to used games, and even now they make sure to refer to 'disc based' games when talking about their used game policy. That's because they, like Microsoft, realise download games are the future and that eventually there will be no used game market as a result.

 

[Brennan]

But if games aren't profitable then people won't develop them. If you stand to have rights over your game with Microsoft for future sell ons etc. then you effectively have more revenue streams and control over your product. If that were me, I’d be pushing the Microsoft version of my game, or even not developing it for Sony. People may say it’ll sell loads less cos everyone has a PS4, but how long would it take for those PS4 users to switch to Microsoft when they saw this happening, or for Sony to introduce something similar to Microsoft under pressure from developers? How much more profit would you make from initial 1st time sales on Sony compared to 2nd/3rd sales on Microsoft? (I honestly don’t know the answer to that last question). I’d guess it makes more sense for developers to sell electronic copies of their software rather than producing actual disks for the shops. I agreed with a lad a few pages back, Microsoft are in this for the long haul and may have played a blinder. Does anyone know how much the games are going to be? Will say a game like Fifa be the same price on both platforms? Or would Sony have to charge more, to bridge the 2nd hand sale gap?

Profit on second hand games is like agents in football taking money out and putting nothing in. As a developer you're going to want some of that profit. I honestly don’t see how it is any different to how software works in business, in that you buy a licence to use it, or how your itunes library works. You can’t lend your mate one of your itunes albums and then get it back from him next week.

This was a move that was always going to be made. The Sony vs Microsoft thing reminds me of when Affliction started up a rival MMA company to the UFC. They pandered to the hardcore fans and did everything they all wanted. Paid big name fighters fortunes etc. but it wasn’t sustainable and they went back to making t-shirts.

It isn't any different. Gamers just seem to think it should be, despite it not being financially viable. That's precisely why so many developers are jumping on mobile gaming.

Games are actually less expensive now (especially taking inflation into account) than they were thirty years ago, despite the cost of development skyrocketing.

Games like MGS4 cost $50m to produce, without marketing or any other costs on top.

 

[njligernj]

Does anyone know how much the games are going to be?

Over here the PS4/X1 pre-orders are at the same price point as PS3/360.

In their original PS4 conference they made practically no reference to used games, and even now they make sure to refer to 'disc based' games when talking about their used game policy. That's because they, like Microsoft, realise download games are the future and that eventually there will be no used game market as a result.

They are going to run into some problems if they try to jump to 4k without any physical media. Although so will TV/movies so it might encourage an infrastructure upgrade.

If everyone used Netflix, downloaded/streamed all TV/movies and downloaded and played all games online it would cause some massive problems with the current broadband setup in a lot of areas. A lot of people have cap problems now and that's without downloading massive games (or even streaming them from a cloud). Amazon and iTunes still don't have lossless music for crying out loud.

Sure it's inevitable eventually but a lot will need to change from ISPs in order to make no physical media a viable alternative. People pointed out a lot of reasons why they don't like the "always need to be online" aspect of the console and a lot of those reasons apply to not being able to buy a physical copy too.

 

[Baines' left foot]

It isn't any different. Gamers just seem to think it should be, despite it not being financially viable. That's precisely why so many developers are jumping on mobile gaming.

Games are actually less expensive now (especially taking inflation into account) than they were thirty years ago, despite the cost of development skyrocketing.

Games like MGS4 cost $50m to produce, without marketing or any other costs on top.

You're right actually. I distinctly remember paying £55 for World Cup 98 on the N64 as a 10 year old FFS! It must have taken me months to save that up.

Fairly sure Nintendo were sued for overpricing games during the 90's actually.

 

[Furey1878]

You're right actually. I distinctly remember paying £55 for World Cup 98 on the N64 as a 10 year old FFS! It must have taken me months to save that up.

Fairly sure Nintendo were sued for overpricing games during the 90's actually.

Play are curerntly pricing XBone games at 60, little bit silly like. If there's a situation were a game comes out and it's still 30 - 40 quid on PC but 60 on the XBone then that will be really silly.

 

[Brownie]

Leroy Fer chilling out. More nerd points for knowing who this is.

 

[heatmeiser]

It looks jib all like him though Brown.

Anyway, it's SpawN.

 

[Brownie]

It looks jib all like him though Brown.

Anyway, it's SpawN.

Does it not?

Lil bit cmon.

 

[heatmeiser]

Ok maybe a teeny bit.

He looks just look someone else though and I agree, it's annoying.