Apart from Heysel...

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The thing about Man U is only three managers have ever won the league there. Compared with six who won it with us.

They've only had two great periods of success (under Busby and under Ferguson) it's just that each lasted a lot longer then most periods do.
 
I feel like I'm blaspheming saying this but I think the evolution of Kendal's side was as much a surprise to him as it was to us.

Only Liverpool and Utd have produced dynasties lasting decades most teams get a couple of years maybe 5 at the most then it goes tits up.

Us Leeds, Derby, Forest, Villa, Blackburn have all risen like rockets then fell to earth in my time, Arsenal have come close but really the 4th place trophy has covered their fall.

In all honesty I never saw anything to suggest we'd do anything but fall away once Reid and Gray began to fade - pretty normal really.

Yeah, they were consistent over a couple of decades but not invincible. Look at Liverpool's heyday - roughly 73-90 - they were dominant in sub-periods within that time frame but surpassed by the likes of Leeds, Forest, us and Arsenal...then United finally buried them for good. Liverpool basically crammed their best years into those two decades.
 
In response to the attendance when we played United in the first Prem season, Old Trafford was undergoing redevelopment at the time, impacting on capacity. To my mind, through the 70s, 80s they always had bigger crowds than us, even when they were doing ****e. A succession of small minded chairmen who ran the club like the local Golf Society are to blame. Dr Marsh, anyone?
 
Even if we had brought them through ourselves imagine the cost of breaking up

Giggs, Butt, Neville, Scholes, Beckham, May, Neville.

Being the without doubt best at the time is one thing and having that side demolished for ambition/money is a tough face of the Eiger to tackle.
We lost out, the timing could not have been worse, it was the nail in the coffin for the then ownership (paving the way in for Agent Johnson) the side had been smashed, the PREM was on its way, and as much as we love her Goodison couldnt allow the influx of corp capital other clubs could. Murdoch only tried to get hold of one club in this country.

No way the ban could happen today, but holliganism and the scum of the earth infected every club everywhere, not just LFC back then (and still now).

It was a perfect storm, perfect for everyone else bar us. That we are not paying for that chapter anymore is a grace to be treasured, but to fall back into such a dilemma is closer than winning the title is.
 
agree with the lad who points out that the park end was a dissapointment. the fact that it holds half of the gwladys street says it all really, should of had two tiers and more executive boxes. goodison is fu*kin gorgeous but yes it needs redoveloping. another tier on the parkend etc, i would be very sad to see the gwladys street go though, such good memories in there
 
agree with the lad who points out that the park end was a dissapointment. the fact that it holds half of the gwladys street says it all really, should of had two tiers and more executive boxes. goodison is fu*kin gorgeous but yes it needs redoveloping. another tier on the parkend etc, i would be very sad to see the gwladys street go though, such good memories in there

To put it in perspective, the new Park End has a capacity that is practically identical to Tranmere Rovers' Kop.

We also got a fat grant to pay for it as well, making it a very, very cheap 'investment' for Everton Football Club.
 
I think all the points covered have us were we are.

Hysel first
Poor administration and missing the boat to develop the ground (or move) when it was affordable
Poor management choices which compounded the decline

As far as Man U, Munich made them a global brand and created a genuine legend of the Busby Babes. A fantastic team was destroyed over night and even Evertonians have to admit their re-emergence to win in 1968 was the stuff of Holywood.
 
It was a Government decision, too. The annoying thing is that Everton ( and Rapid Vienna ) fans acted in a friendly manner two weeks earlier.

was it 2 weeks ? I remember it as being only one.

The only nonsense in the ground was Celtic fans (supposedly) burning Vienna flags .. seemed semi-amusing at the time but on reflection just bitter sweaties.
 
IMO it's a combination of getting everything wrong from heysal onwards.

You can have one thing go against you or got one thing wrong and come out the other end shinning....
You can't get every decision wrong time after time and expect to get anywhere.
 
I think all the points covered have us were we are.

Hysel first
Poor administration and missing the boat to develop the ground (or move) when it was affordable
Poor management choices which compounded the decline

As far as Man U, Munich made them a global brand and created a genuine legend of the Busby Babes. A fantastic team was destroyed over night and even Evertonians have to admit their re-emergence to win in 1968 was the stuff of Holywood.

This is all.
 
And utd have always been a big club with a big fan base

In preparation of the prem league they transformed there stadium went global and put alot into there brand and most importantly put together a brilliant on field team followed by a batch of youngsters that took on Europe!
 
And utd have always been a big club with a big fan base

In preparation of the prem league they transformed there stadium went global and put alot into there brand and most importantly put together a brilliant on field team followed by a batch of youngsters that took on Europe!

I remember in the mid to late 1980's they had a megastore that would put our two today to shame!!!
 
All of the afore mentioned reasons contributed in some way,,, United's success cam from a brilliant Fergie policy when he arrived at United, he set up a huge youth policy and sent scouts out all over the country and brought back the best youngsters to train with United..... not all of them made it as players and were cast aside as soon as they were 18 but this policy also stopped other clubs getting their hands on many promising prospects as United had already tapped them up. I know this happened as a friend of mine was there a couple of years ahead of the dream midfield that came through, my riend was with them from the age of 14 and stayed for a few years before finally being released with only 1 first team appearance to his name. People need to realise that Fergie had a massive part to play behind the scenes at United as regards their dominance of the past 20 odd years.
 
If you look at the clubs in that big 5, Man Utd are the real outliers, in the sense that they were a northern club (so couldn't rely on London based income in the way Spurs and Arsenal have done), yet have built a money making machine. Ok that's being exploited like you wouldn't believe by the owners, but the build period is what we're talking about here right?

I think a major reason for their success during the early Sky period was that they were listed on the stock exchange and had good management (board level that is). I was a shareholder in them back then so got regular updates on what they were doing and how effective it was. Like them or not, they generally went about things the right way.

They used money from the flotation and from Sky to invest heavily into Old Trafford. You have to remember that after the Taylor report, Old Trafford only seated 44,000 fans, so not much more than Goodison. It was also a stadium with a similar age to GP.

To coincide with hosting games at Euro 96 they bought a nearby trading estate to give them space to expand the ground. First they added 10,000 seats, taking it to 55,000, then when the next stand was finished it had risen to over 68,000. Of course now the stadium holds 76,000 or so fans, nearly double what Goodison holds.

So that was one thing. They also invested heavily in the training and youth facilities, and have led the way in terms of growing commercial revenue.

Whilst we built Finch Farm, that was delivered 7 years after Man Utd re-built Carrington. Our commercial revenues, especially from overseas markets, has also been well behind.

They should have been the role model for us, because they haven't grown due to sugar daddy spending, they've grown due to their own revenue, and if it wasn't for the Glazers they would be so much better off as a result.

Of course things might have been very different had that Knightly bloke bought them as he'd wanted to.
 
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