Apart from Heysel...

[chrissyjack]

I still don't understand why it was ALL English clubs that were banned.

It was a Government decision, too. The annoying thing is that Everton ( and Rapid Vienna ) fans acted in a friendly manner two weeks earlier.

 

[Animal Farm]

It was Heysel pure and simple. We had a great team and manager, as a result of the ban it all broke up and the manager left as well......

Liverpool were banned from Europe as well, as were other clubs, why didn't they implode in the manner we did?

We got money for all those players, and we were breaking British transfer records with the signing of Cottee in 1988.

Our descent stems from bad footballing decisions coinciding with piss poor business administration. I mean, how had we become so shit by 1994? I don't think all the blame can be pointed at the board for that? It wasn't like today when Man City are spending 40million pound in one day whilst Moyes deals with peanuts in comparison.

It would have been interesting to see that whole 'net spend' argument and league table for the period of 1987-1994. I doubt there would have been much of a gulf between us and the league leaders at the time. So does some of our descent stem from bad footballing management?

 

[noharmdone]

I still don't understand why it was ALL English clubs that were banned.

It was Government, I watched a dvd titled 'hooligan' the other night, eye opening stuff.

 

[SheedyBracewellReidSteven]

Heysel and the massive injustice of our best team ever not being able to conquer Europe in the premier competition. Kendall left. Harvey was a good coach but not a good manager. Team disintegrated and dross signings followed. We were amazingly lucky not to be relegated twice in the following years. Some poor managers (I met Mike Walker in a restaurant in town on a work night out - I was convinced we were doomed after that!), and some players who were a disgrace to the memory of many who had precededed them. Oh, and terrible boards with even worse commercial departments.

Just looked up Wiki and Moyes has the best post-war winning percentage except for Harry Catterick and Howard Kendall first time round. Not so bad after all maybe.

Loved the comment about the dream of Kendall still being in place like SAF at Man U. I think it is fair to say that Kendall's nose was redder and bigger than SAF's much earlier, so that is definitely dream territory that!

 

[PaddyG]

It's so depressing discussing this. I think it stems from the club being poorly run as already pointed out, we seem to be the same club as we were 30 years ago while other clubs have developed, if that makes sense. Mainly due to not developing the ground.

 

[Clint Planet]

I'm wondering what allowed Everton to disintegrate completely when we hit the 1990s compared to clubs like United who went from strength to strength.

As soon as Sky invented Football in 1992 United were onto a winner. Surely that much is obvious.

[Poor language removed] me, Sky even tried to buy them at one point. How surreal does that sound?

 

[Animal Farm]

When we played the MASSIVE United in the first season of the Premier League, the attendance was 30,000. So some of Uniteds increased future attendances may be due to ground re-development, but never underestimate the total f*cking bandwagon, glory-hunting that goes on in this counrty.
We used to be 'the mersey millionaires' dont ever forget that, we were the 1960's / 1970's big spenders. Even Lineker and Cottee were record transfers ( I think ? ) What goes around comes around, but the myth that United were always massive is just that, a myth - oh, and Leeds hardly won anything in the 70's either, they finished second a lot and let Liverpool win their first FA Cup, but they were not all conquering either.
Christ, I thought it was bad enough when I started to see Chelsea shirts all over the show a few years back, now it City shirts, not as many like, but significant.

Heysel was the original cause, but the old lady that is Goodison Park needs a make-over, big style, to get the newer, younger fans into it.

All attendances were piss poor back then in comparison to now. I can remember being at Goodison in the early 90's and attendances of about 18,500 were common place, and in some cases even worse than that.

They may not have been that successful trophy wise in the 70's and 80's but they were always a massive club IMO. You just need to look at the old Youtube videos, or read the autobiographies of George Best and Bobby Charlton to realise that. In 1985 Ron Atkinson was getting quite a bit of shit for not winning the league with United, as they were expected to do so, and then he finished the season by winning the FA Cup and denying us an historical treble.

I hate United, but I think they have always been a massive club. We may have been bigger than them on numerous occasions throughout footballing history, but they have always been a very big club IMO.

 

[kenada_blue]

I'm still quite young, and therefore my knowledge is limited somewhat. But despite their lack of trophies throughout the 70's and 80's, I think United were always MASSIVE. They also got a top draw manager in Fergie and gave him time to create his own team, and this coincided with the advent of the premier league and some sound business decisions from those in charge at Man U.

Numerous things have gone wrong at Everton. But one of our main failings was not redeveloping our ground (like everyone else did) during the 1990's. For me, the new Park End is a half completed cheapo stand that cost less than Kevin Kilbane. Not putting a second tier on the Park End was a very short sighted, mingebag decision which has cost us millions in lost revenue from executive boxes and increased capacity.

United have always been a big team but nothing on the scale that it is now.

The nail on the head is definitely not taking advantage of the premier league, and more importantly the champions league, on its inception.

The way I see it, Uniteds wealth has sky rocketed based on being successful in the time when clubs were paid handsomely at home and abroad on the back of the success. They were managed very well.

We weren't. Neither were Blackburn after winning the premiership. In the last few seasons, the rs the same.

 

[noharmdone]

All attendances were piss poor back then in comparison to now. I can remember being at Goodison in the early 90's and attendances of about 18,500 were common place, and in some cases even worse than that.

They may not have been that successful trophy wise in the 70's and 80's but they were always a massive club IMO. You just need to look at the old Youtube videos to see that. In 1985 Ron Atkinson was getting quite a bit of shit for not winning the league with United, as they were expected to do so, and then he finished the season by winning the FA Cup and denying us an historical treble.

I hate United, but I think they have always been a massive club. We may have been bigger than them on numerous occasions throughout their history, but they have always been a very big club IMO.

The OP is mentioning Heysel, not early 1990's. Utd were big, of course they were, Best, Charlton Etc, but they were also relagated remember.
You mention 1985, I was at Goodison when we put 5 past Utd..
There was football before Sky and the Premier league, I dont live on past achievements by the way, its when things get distorted that I start ranting a little ! ( sorry ! )

 

[nigelcoyb]

I feel like I'm blaspheming saying this but I think the evolution of Kendal's side was as much a surprise to him as it was to us.

Only Liverpool and Utd have produced dynasties lasting decades most teams get a couple of years maybe 5 at the most then it goes tits up.

Us Leeds, Derby, Forest, Villa, Blackburn have all risen like rockets then fell to earth in my time, Arsenal have come close but really the 4th place trophy has covered their fall.

In all honesty I never saw anything to suggest we'd do anything but fall away once Reid and Gray began to fade - pretty normal really.

 

[SheedyBracewellReidSteven]

It's so depressing discussing this. I think it stems from the club being poorly run as already pointed out, we seem to be the same club as we were 30 years ago while other clubs have developed, if that makes sense. Mainly due to not developing the ground.

Other clubs developed their grounds and went nowhere mate. Gash board, players and managers aren't compensated for by a shiny new or refurbished ground. We missed the bus big time when the Prem came along.

 

[Animal Farm]

The OP is mentioning Heysel, not early 1990's. Utd were big, of course they were, Best, Charlton Etc, but they were also relagated remember.
You mention 1985, I was at Goodison when we put 5 past Utd..
There was football before Sky and the Premier league, I dont live on past achievements by the way, its when things get distorted that I start ranting a little ! ( sorry ! )

To be fair, I think the OP is referring to our drastic descent from the English footballing elite which took place between 1987 and 1994, and beyond that as well.

I'm well aware that there have been periods of history in which Everton were every bit as big, if not even bigger than Man United. But I bet you if you look at their attendance history (if that's what we are basing things on), that they have always had one of the largest followings in the league.

They are now a super power if you like, but it's not like they have done a Chelsea, they've always been one of the biggest clubs in England.

 

[nigelcoyb]

Regarding Utd they used to fill Old Trafford when they got relegated, as Peter Robinson the excellent Club Sec of the RS once mused "if Utd ever got their act together we'd all better watch out".

The Busby babes, Munich, Best, Law and Charlton and the european cup made them the country's team, anyone who liked footy but didn't have a decent team nearby chose them.

Ferguson was the first manager since Busby to have ambition and vision - the moneys been there from the 60s.

 

[Topblue]

Colin Harvey as a manager.

 

[davek]

Chelsea.