Andy Gray: Martinez Not Helping Lukaku

[toffeeblue9]

I think he'l be eager to start analysing what went wrong as soon as the final whistle of the season blows.

For me it's not that complicated: the major issue has been the failure to adapt tp the European/domestic schedule. I notice Jagielka goes into more detail on this in the Echo today: http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/exclusive-everton-fc-captain-phil-8805014

Obviously there's more to it than that (poor pre-season, transfer activity/inactivity, failure to keep consistent teams on the pitch), but that major problem wont be there next season, so the task of deconstructing this season isn't going to be a major issue.

My hope is that he hits the ground running in terms of filling key positions in the team as soon as the window opens (and get agreements in place even before then).

I am sure that has something to do with it, but the fact that in 07/08 we reached the quarter finals of the UEFA Cup whilst finishing 5th in the league makes with a smaller and arguably weaker squad makes me think that there has to be more to it than just the demands of European football.

 

[Khalekan]

Obviously there's more to it than that (poor pre-season, transfer activity/inactivity, failure to keep consistent teams on the pitch), but that major problem wont be there next season, so the task of deconstructing this season isn't going to be a major issue.

My hope is that he hits the ground running in terms of filling key positions in the team as soon as the window opens (and get agreements in place even before then).

Don't tell me you gave joined the ranks of the malcontents who have written off our EL chances, Dave.

I am disappointed in you....

My view us the "major problem" will be exacerbated next season as we will be stepping up a level to CL soccer.

And I should jolly well hope every Robertonian is wishing for the same thing.

For the record and as I have posted in other threads.

This whole slump started in earnest after the EL went into hiatus.

Prior to he Wolfsburg away leg we had put the dodgy season opening behind us and were on a decent wee run of form.

All through Black December, January ansdmost of February we were free of European involvement but our league firm went into freefall.

The EL has not been the major cause of our fall from grace this season.

 

[davek]

Well yes, it is quite straightforward to someone with a clear head. I just worry though as with any of us when under the scrutiny he is under it is hard to think clearly.

You are correct Europe hasn't helped. To me it's simpler than that. Our top pro's have either under performed or been injured. Europe hasn't helped on the injury/fatigue front.

Howard, Distin, Mirallas, Jagielka, Eto were all disappointing. To a lesser degree Barry, Baines and Coleman have been below par. McCarthy has been injured too much. Osman and Peinaar have gone a season too far and Martinez has placed too much faith in them.

The younger players Stones, Barkley and Lukaku have all to varying degrees suffered as a result of this.

Of the senior pro's we need to move on the ones who are not on board with the manager. The ones who want to stay should, but there needs to be an appreciation we are starting from scratch next season.

In 2004/5 Lee Carsley emerged as a very central player in a new system from being a bit part player.

Europe has exacerbated our problems. We will be far more back to basics next season.

The player performances are a lot to do with this season, agreed.

I know some think it's a wind up, but there is something to the notion of second season syndrome at play here. These players had it all to prove last season and rose to the challenge. They had a lot of good press and praise from 'the experts'. They just didn't put the hard yards in this season - as said, the gear change between Europe and domestic workload was a tough one, but they need to look to their own application of effort also.

 

[davek]

I am sure that has something to do with it, but the fact that in 07/08 we reached the quarter finals of the UEFA Cup whilst finishing 5th in the league makes with a smaller and arguably weaker squad makes me think that there has to be more to it than just the demands of European football.

Style of play though: in Moyes period we could play with a lot less energy than the levels required for Martine's system. It's easier to cope mentally and physically if the game plan is to go direct a lot more. The concentration needed for more of a possession based game exceeds all that.

 

[davek]

Don't tell me you gave joined the ranks of the malcontents who have written off our EL chances, Dave.

I am disappointed in you....

My view us the "major problem" will be exacerbated next season as we will be stepping up a level to CL soccer.

And I should jolly well hope every Robertonian is wishing for the same thing.

For the record and as I have posted in other threads.

This whole slump started in earnest after the EL went into hiatus.

Prior to he Wolfsburg away leg we had put the dodgy season opening behind us and were on a decent wee run of form.

All through Black December, January ansdmost of February we were free of European involvement but our league firm went into freefall.

The EL has not been the major cause of our fall from grace this season.

...December/January are the busiest periods of the season domestically: cup comes into it and the Christmas/new years schedule.

There was no 'hiatus'.

 

[Kiwi]

Andrew Mullen Gray took us to the cleaners when we were interested in appointing him manager. Anyone who considers him or Bilic a genuine replacement to Martinez needs to give their head a few whirls. Bilic diddled the club out of money and Gray has shown blatant disrespect to the club by using it as a bargaining piece for a better contract with Sky.

 

[Pat's Van]

You have a low threshold for greatness.

Here are Everton's greats:

Dean - obviously
Lawton - best forward of his generation
Ball - one of the best British players of all time
Southall - best GK in the world at his peak
Sharp - club's top scorer


It's a select group of players and Gray comes nowhere near it.

that's not right, Dean is the club's top scorer

 

[Little Ralphy]

Andrew Mullen Gray took us to the cleaners when we were interested in appointing him manager. Anyone who considers him or Bilic a genuine replacement to Martinez needs to give their head a few whirls. Bilic diddled the club out of money and Gray has shown blatant disrespect to the club by using it as a bargaining piece.

In fairness to Gray the club weren't exactly loyal to him when he was a player either. There are no loyalties in football and if Gray used the club to better his Sky contract then a lot of the blame should lie with the same man who gave Nigel Martin directions to Leeds Utd after holding talks with him at the Park Hampers facility!

 

[Jeff Jones]

Oh, so now it's "we" again? Koff, you beauty.

What's wrong with Everton's past players referring to us as 'we'?

I haven't heard it, but I gather that he's dissed us at some time. Has he?

 

[Kiwi]

In fairness to Gray the club weren't exactly loyal to him when he was a player either. There are no loyalties in football and if Gray used the club to better his Sky contract then a lot of the blame should lie with the same man who gave Nigel Martin directions to Leeds Utd after holding talks with him at the Park Hampers facility!

So to use the club as a bargaining piece is acceptable?
When he is offered the job wholeheartedly I expect him to either accept or decline, not to lead us along only to jib the promises he made to us off only to get an improved contract from Sky.

 

[Little Ralphy]

So to use the club as a bargaining piece is acceptable?
When he is offered the job wholeheartedly I expect him to either accept or decline, not to lead us along only to jib the promises he made to us off only to get an improved contract from Sky.

But he wasn't offered a contract, and Sky jumped in and offered him a very lucrative one. By all accounts Gray was very interested in the job, but Sky jumped in with the money while PJ was still thinking about drawing up a contract.

People need to lose the notion that people in football are loyal to the clubs/players. It's a very ruthless business and anyone with any experience in it can tell you that the only loyalties in football are from the fans.

 

[Khalekan]

...December/January are the busiest periods of the season domestically: cup comes into it and the Christmas/new years schedule.

There was no 'hiatus'.

There was in the EL.

Which is what I said, Dave.

As you point out, it was the busy domestic programme in midwinter which has proven to be our undoing, not the seasonally mothballed Europa League.

 

[Khalekan]

Andrew Mullen Gray took us to the cleaners when we were interested in appointing him manager. Anyone who considers him or Bilic a genuine replacement to Martinez needs to give their head a few whirls. Bilic diddled the club out of money and Gray has shown blatant disrespect to the club by using it as a bargaining piece for a better contract with Sky.

Who would consider Andy to be a "genuine replacement" for Martinez?

I have never heard it mentioned anywhere except here.

Andy has done nowt to foster this notion.

 

[Little Ralphy]

it was the busy domestic programme in midwinter which has proven to be our undoing, not the seasonally mothballed Europa League.

The Europa league is a very easy excuse to make though, and like in life, if you give someone an excuse for failure in advance, then you likely wont get full commitment from them.

 

[Khalekan]

The Europa league is a very easy excuse to make though, and like in life, if you give someone an excuse for failure in advance, then you likely wont get full commitment from them.

Very true, Ralph.