2020/21 Alex Iwobi

[Lanolin]

It's potential. Clubs generally buy younger players based on how good they can get. I don't see how Iwobi breaks into the arsenal side under Wenger, makes an impression, is inconsistent but bags more assists and goals than most of our midfielders at 22, is premiership ready, and it NOT be calculated punt.

People are suggesting he was awful for Arsenal and it's no surprise he's awful for us and wonder why we bought him. I'm making a point that there was a basis to buy him.

So you need a base. Which means getting you for a free must mean you had something about you in the first place to even be considered.

But of course he's got something about him. I never quite get this; every time we have someone who's not doing well there's this suggestion that they're like a conference player or something, but obviously they aren't. Iwobi is a competent PL footballer, that's the base. If we made him available for £10m and he was asking for £40k a week then half the league would be having a look at him. We didn't though, and the deal we got him on is very relevant to whether or not it was a sound piece of business.

 

[kenada_blue]

And the key point is a central area of value for a DOF is to turn those theoreticals into actuals. Just as a manager is judged not on what a substitution might do, but what they actually do, the same is the case for a DOF.

He just doesn't put any consistency together Iwobi. I know people want to slaughter Sigurdsson, but when you actually look at Sigurdssons numbers it's chalk and cheese to this guy. He has the occasional great game, then is awful.

Which was the big complaint at arsenal is consistency. He had better players around him that masked a lot IMO. I'm not defending him as I think he's not good enough 1st team player (squad maybe).

Siggy is more of a case of the outlay Vs the type of player we needed/expected.

 

[clive R]

There have been many flashes of what he can do, but playing in non existent midfield around him and given a non specific job to do it's no wonder he has struggled. Alex will become a valuable part of this sqaud and team and loose the the whipping boy status once the next one is majority selected

He will have to stop shooting yards over the bar and crossing over the box to the other wing.

 

[kenada_blue]

But of course he's got something about him. I never quite get this; every time we have someone who's not doing well there's this suggestion that they're like a conference player or something, but obviously they aren't. Iwobi is a competent PL footballer, that's the base. If we made him available for £10m and he was asking for £40k a week then half the league would be having a look at him. We didn't though, and the deal we got him on is very relevant to whether or not it was a sound piece of business.

£30mill is a standard fee now though. Taking in age, calibre of club etc. Just like Moise Kean - £30mill for a 19 year old from Juve with potential.

Countless examples of it. Maddison for Leicester went from the championship to premiership for £22mill at 21 years old. Lower figure as a jump from a lower league to a higher one.

It's not as if we paid that price for a ready made senior or over paid for him ala £40-£50mill

 

[Lanolin]

£30mill is a standard fee now though. Taking in age, calibre of club etc. Just like Moise Kean - £30mill for a 19 year old from Juve with potential.

Countless examples of it. Maddison for Leicester went from the championship to premiership for £22mill at 21 years old. Lower figure as a jump from a lower league to a higher one.

But Maddison's good. I feel like that's the bit you're not getting here. You could say every player has potential if you're a life coach, but in the real world some players have potential and some players don't. I think the whole point is that most people who had watched Iwobi did not believe he was worth £30m because they did not believe he had the potential to make that seem like a reasonable fee. It also isn't a standard fee, it would be a club record fee for most clubs in the division. I've said before, we've become so used to blowing extortionate fees on crap that we've forgotten it isn't the only way to do it.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

It was always very obvious why he was a terrible transfer.

For that amount, he should be a regular.

A regular in his position needs to contribute double figures in terms of goals or assists for us to compete at the top end of the table. Silva spoke of how he'd need to add goals to his game, and Brands remarkably said he'd bring us goals.

He never did for Arsenal. He was never going to for us.

Iwobi will never, ever score - or assist double figures in a single season in the Premier League.

He hasn't got the composure.

Depending on what money we get back for him, context/pound for pound he could end up topping Bolasie for me as Everton's worst ever transfer.

 

[Chimpy Glassman]

It was always very obvious why he was a terrible transfer.

For that amount, he should be a regular.

A regular in his position needs to contribute double figures in terms of goals or assists for us to compete at the top end of the table. Silva spoke of how he'd need to add goals to his game, and Brands remarkably said he'd bring us goals.

He never did for Arsenal. He was never going to for us.

Iwobi will never, ever score - or assist double figures in a single season in the Premier League.

He hasn't got the composure.

Depending on what money we get back for him, context/pound for pound he could end up topping Bolasie for me as Everton's worst ever transfer.

I hate Iwobi as much as the next Evertonian (probably more) but he is absolutely nowhere near Bolaise levels of catastrophic.

We will get SOME sort of fee back on him from some easily dueped newly promoted new-money team, we cannot get rid of Bolaise even if we agree to pay wages.

Bolasie is historically, biblically bad in every single aspect.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

I hate Iwobi as much as the next Evertonian (probably more) but he is absolutely nowhere near Bolaise levels of catastrophic.

We will get SOME sort of fee back on him from some easily dueped newly promoted new-money team, we cannot get rid of Bolaise even if we agree to pay wages.

Bolasie is historically, biblically bad in every single aspect.

Time will tell, that's why I said depending what money we get back for him.

Wasn't a fan of Bolasie's "to the byline, hit and hope crosses" - he was another without the composure in the final third, but at least he offered some pace or direct threat.

When I said context wise, that's his injury.

Iwobi also cost a fair bit more than Bolasie - 36% more. Suspect his wages is a fair bit more too.

 

[Thomasc]

Which other Club could spend over £70M on Walcott, Tosun and Bolasie...and then try to recover the situation by loaning them out and paying wages whilst signing Iwobi for around £28M.....and then sign Josh King as cover for him to get about 11minutes since he joined?
You really couldn’t make it up.

This is true.
The majority of our transfer business over the last few years has been abhorrent, even allowing for the fact that some are gambles.

 

[Cameron Manning]

The sad thing about that is that his first 5 games were probably among his best for us. Scored a couple of headers weirdly.

Well you do try your best at a new club, one header was against Barnsley? in the league cup and I think the other one was a very good one versus Woves, but when it came to the hard part and hard work he didn’t want to know plus tackling was not in his plans, shirked most of them. He can still look good in patches but flatters to deceive mostly and we are stuck with him unless we sell at a big loss and even then buyers will be hard to find.

 

[kenada_blue]

But Maddison's good. I feel like that's the bit you're not getting here. You could say every player has potential if you're a life coach, but in the real world some players have potential and some players don't. I think the whole point is that most people who had watched Iwobi did not believe he was worth £30m because they did not believe he had the potential to make that seem like a reasonable fee. It also isn't a standard fee, it would be a club record fee for most clubs in the division. I've said before, we've become so used to blowing extortionate fees on crap that we've forgotten it isn't the only way to do it.

Not one bit. If Maddison was deemed that good a premiership player, he'd have gone for more than he did - see Norwich now with the fees for Godfrey, Aaron's, Cantwell etc. He was a good enough risk to take that has paid off massively for that outlay. And I'm sure we'd have raised an eyebrow at paying £20mill for a championship player - like Villa spending £30mill on Watkins.

And I'd disagree to say that most thought Iwobi from Arsenal for £30mill was bad business to begin with as pointed out previously (he'd also scored in a Europa League final btw).

But your argument is that we should only spend low fees on potential, and higher fees on guaranteed buys? Doesn't work like that.

 

[Lanolin]

Not one bit. If Maddison was deemed that good a premiership player, he'd have gone for more than he did - see Norwich now with the fees for Godfrey, Aaron's, Cantwell etc. He was a good enough risk to take that has paid off massively for that outlay. And I'm sure we'd have raised an eyebrow at paying £20mill for a championship player - like Villa spending £30mill on Watkins.

And I'd disagree to say that most thought Iwobi from Arsenal for £30mill was bad business to begin with as pointed out previously (he'd also scored in a Europa League final btw).

But your argument is that we should only spend low fees on potential, and higher fees on guaranteed buys? Doesn't work like that.

I don't know what it is about this that you're finding difficult to be honest, but no, that is not what i'm saying. I can't really be bothered explaining for the 78th time what is a pretty simple point so I'll leave it there and we'll pretend that James Maddison and Alex Iwobi both had equal chance of being good signings and nothing but pure luck that nobody could possibly have foreseen differentiates them.

 

[kenada_blue]

I don't know what it is about this that you're finding difficult to be honest, but no, that is not what i'm saying. I can't really be bothered explaining for the 78th time what is a pretty simple point so I'll leave it there and we'll pretend that James Maddison and Alex Iwobi both had equal chance of being good signings and nothing but pure luck that nobody could possibly have foreseen differentiates them.

I get your point mate. You think Iwobi wasn't worth £30mill cos he didn't do enough at Arsenal to warrant that fee. That we overspend without really working out if they're worth the fee.

I disagree with that.

And you're reaching pretty far to suggest everyone knew Maddison was going to be a very good premiership player based on what he did in the championship

 

[GrandOldTeam]

I get your point mate. You think Iwobi wasn't worth £30mill cos he didn't do enough at Arsenal to warrant that fee. That we overspend without really working out if they're worth the fee.

I disagree with that.

And you're reaching pretty far to suggest everyone knew Maddison was going to be a very good premiership player based on what he did in the championship

We tried to sign Maddison but he jibbed us for Leicester.

 

[Lanolin]

I get your point mate. You think Iwobi wasn't worth £30mill cos he didn't do enough at Arsenal to warrant that fee. That we overspend without really working out if they're worth the fee.

I disagree with that.

And you're reaching pretty far to suggest everyone knew Maddison was going to be a very good premiership player based on what he did in the championship

Mate, you're honestly not getting it. I have absolutely not said - anywhere - that everyone knew Maddison was going to be a very good premiership player! What i'm saying is that you're effectively just putting stuff down to luck, and not taking into account the fact that players can be scouted and you can make assessments of how likely they are to do well. I do not believe Iwobi was ever likely to be a sound investment, and he hasn't been. You can of course say 'yeah but in a parallel universe he might have been' but i'm not really sure what that adds to the conversation. Any transaction, whether in football or life, has a risk/reward balance to it. In my opinion the risk/reward balance on Iwobi was heavily skewed towards risk, and it's a risk that hasn't paid off.