7th, 17th, 4th, 11th, 6th, 5th, 5th, 8th, 7th, 7th

[Goat]

Montpellier last year.

From what ive read about them, they got lucky with an excellent youth system.

 

[roydo]

]You were doing well untill you called people jokers.[/B] It doesn't have to be as divisive an issue as it is. I think Moyes' record deserves a degree of respect myself but understand that people don't like the term "overachieving". I think we are about where we should be but that it's a difficult job to keep us there.

Lost in translation mate, its a term of endearment, sort of, down here, such as "usual jokers in the pub tonight?", Somerset version of "regulars" if you like.

R

 

[Allezfan]

From what ive read about them, they got lucky with an excellent youth system.

They did exactly what Nigel is suggesting, played a bunch of kids and unfancied veterans and managed to beat the richer teams, the way Clough did in the 70s.

 

[bluebottle]

Lost in translation mate, its a term of endearment, sort of, down here, such as "usual jokers in the pub tonight?", Somerset version of "regulars" if you like.

R

I get you, just thought people may take it personally which is a shame given that what you posted was, up untill that point wonderfully reasonable I thought.

 

[tim cahill]

So if we're ignoring foriegn leagues and we're ignoring anything more than twenty years ago, there's not exactly a huge sample to look at is there?

My dad's always telling me that during the 80s the media always said that a london club could never win the league because of all the derbies and then they did and everyone shut up. It's the same about a poor club these days.

The amount of money that has been pumped into the game in the last 20 years in this country is the issue.

 

[davek]

Blimey, a bit of common sense. Wont last though.......

Some context. In my lifetime, 3 managers have won something for Eberton. One of those, (Big Joe & the FAC) could be considered a touch fortunate, Catt was in control of probably the richest club in England, and HK, was, of course, ace.

So, in 47 seasons, we have won, I think, 7 things, (7th place trophy being ignored for now,), and 6 of those were in 5 seasons, so we have 1 FAC in the remaining 42 seasons.

In that context, and taking into account your points re Sky etc etc, what, exactly, do some jokers really expect?

Even by those statistics it's damning though: for the 47 years you isolate we won an average of one trophy just under every 8 seasons. Unless we win the FA Cup this season, we've now gone 18 years without a trophy.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

In that context, and taking into account your points re Sky etc etc, what, exactly, do some jokers really expect?

I expect, that after doing a brillaint job of assemling a highly talented squad that could achieve regulat top 6 finishes, that same manager then actually managed to have a far better record in knock competitions than he actually does.

Win one? Yeah why not, i mean if we'd never have finished higher than 8th i'm sure people would claim there was no way we could on our budget. But we did so its not unreasonable to expect a team of the quality that Moyes assmebled to actually win a cup.

Rather than regualrly get knocked out of cup competitons by clubs who didn't spend as much as us, or more importantly weren't anywhere near as good as us.

It doesn't take away from the good job he done overall in the league, however in my mind his record in cup compitions including never having won one is poor compared to the ability of the squad he had. Especially in 10 seasons and 25 attempts.

 

[roydo]

I expect, that after doing a brillaint job of assemling a highly talented squad that could achieve regulat top 6 finishes, that same manager then actually managed to have a far better record in knock competitions than he actually does.

Win one? Yeah why not, i mean if we'd never have finished higher than 8th i'm sure people would claim there was no way we could on our budget. But we did so its not unreasonable to expect a team of the quality that Moyes assmebled to actually win a cup.

Rather than regualrly get knocked out of cup competitons by clubs who didn't spend as much as us, or more importantly weren't anywhere near as good as us.

It doesn't take away from the good job he done overall in the league, however in my mind his record in cup compitions including never having won one is poor compared to the ability of the squad he had. Especially in 10 seasons and 25 attempts.

Hang on, I am not saying that DM is some sort of messiah, and it could be argued, and indeed is, that his cup record is not up to much, would not disagree at all. The man is not with out fault, clearly. All I was doing was putting some context into the debate re the massive changes that have impacted on the EPL, (which we seem to have missed out on, by and large), and the reality of of our success over the years.

In all honesty, I have been more impressed by Eberton over the last 18 months than, probably since HK, yes, including the 95 FAC; will we win/fluke a cup? Maybe. Will win the league? Doubt it. Does that make me any less impressed by the squad/team recently? No.

 

[roydo]

Even by those statistics it's damning though: for the 47 years you isolate we won an average of one trophy just under every 8 seasons. Unless we win the FA Cup this season, we've now gone 18 years without a trophy.

Isolated because I was born in 1965. Ie, in my lifetime. Not bending stats to make a point Dave, and I would LOVE to end that 18 year drought. But, IMO, it is not the be all and end all of following Eberton, and I certainly do not think it is a reason to beat DM with. Others at the club, maybe.

Look, unless you see the team live, week in week out, which I dont, a lot of the flak DM gets is lost on me, cos I dont see the 60 mins subs, the Neville points or the hopeless punts up field. All I will say, as repeated somewhere else, is, for whatever reason, this current squad over the lst 18 months has excited me more than any since HK, and for that, surely, Moyes must take some credit?

 

[davek]

Isolated because I was born in 1965. Ie, in my lifetime. Not bending stats to make a point Dave, and I would LOVE to end that 18 year drought. But, IMO, it is not the be all and end all of following Eberton, and I certainly do not think it is a reason to beat DM with. Others at the club, maybe.

Look, unless you see the team live, week in week out, which I dont, a lot of the flak DM gets is lost on me, cos I dont see the 60 mins subs, the Neville points or the hopeless punts up field. All I will say, as repeated somewhere else, is, for whatever reason, this current squad over the lst 18 months has excited me more than any since HK, and for that, surely, Moyes must take some credit?

No I wasn't having a go (you posted a very reasonable opinion). Just making the counterpoint that (regardless of personalities) our organisation has been competitive for trophies fairly regularly...more regular than this barren period we're going through now (though the 70-84 nightmare pushes it!).

 

[Summerskin]

Got to be the phrase of the thread that, forget Nil Satis etc...

Everton - "We came within 80 minutes of winning a cup once!".

 

[Summerskin]

All I will say, as repeated somewhere else, is, for whatever reason, this current squad over the lst 18 months has excited me more than any since HK, and for that, surely, Moyes must take some credit?

Too right he should get credit, Everton is his team.

It also means he should be b*llocked when we bottle the derbies and get knocked out of cups by the likes of Standard Liege, Leeds, Brentford, f*cking Oldham & Reading at home...because Everton are his team when they lose too.

People go on the defensive with this guy even though he's got nothing to back it up, people try and kid themselves that football isn't a winners game anymore.

 

[Elong]

Got to be the phrase of the thread that, forget Nil Satis etc...

Everton - "We came within 80 minutes of winning a cup once!".

Amazing really.

 

[EFCNIK]

MoyLeZ has done wonders at such a small club.

 

[scratchnsurf]

Even by those statistics it's damning though: for the 47 years you isolate we won an average of one trophy just under every 8 seasons. Unless we win the FA Cup this season, we've now gone 18 years without a trophy.

Or the league mate.




Seeing as we're dreaming..................