BT Sport Films - tonight 9pm - Two Tribes - Merseyside football through the 80's

[daza_1973]

Just watched it and there's some serious Stalinist type revisionism around the events of Heysel, but then again its BT sport so no surprise to be fair.

 

[DrEFC]

The way that Heysel was presented there was a 'kin disgrace. The only thing that came out that was honest was Lawrenson's statement that their club swept Heysel under the carpet.

That section on Heysel was prefaced by a general sweeping statement about hooliganism: "all of football was at it". Then the Kopite talking about the state of the ground and getting bottles thrown at them first and being provoked. Then rounding it all off with "the city's shame".

Utter disgrace.

The makers of that documentary have done a disservice in failing to document history in anything like an authentic way. Another whitewash. There's going to be people who'll watch this documentary down the years and think that was the full story...another Kopite hard luck story where even in an event when they killed 39 innocent people they come out of it as the real victims.

Oh, and by the way, the rest of it:

• Even when Everton are winning stuff it's all still in relation to what that 'kin lot were doing
• The shower of Liverpool luvvie bellends
• Lauding those scumbags Frankie Goes to Hollywood when that weapon Holly Johnson refused to get on a plane when he was offered "scum-class" standard tickets...yeah, real man of the people stuff that
• A "social history of football in the 80s" that didn't even mention once that a whole community in Liverpool (its black one) was completely absent from it, kept in their ghetto, because they'd have been 'kin filled in if they'd turned up in large enough numbers at Anfield or Goodison. Didn't see that inconvenient truth crashing the "all in it together against Thatcherism" storyline did we?

Felt sorry for that Evertonian in amongst it, he was the only authentic voice in it for me someone who was real where his Kopite counterpart was a stage scouse clown playing to the camera...no change there then.

I'd put off watching that documentary and now I realise why: I knew it'd be a mixture of fair comment and fabrication...when it really could and should have been a lot more.

2/10.

Mentioned to my mum today about the programme, I mentioned the poverty at the time, she mentioned the racism (I grew up in a mixed household, and despite being a blonde haired, white kid, I was a little n***** to some) My dad is a lifelong blue, but didnt become a season ticket holder till this century, and after I dragged him. Fits rar in with the meaning old boobs in the main stand now though.

 

[EvertonFury19]

Has anyone read the book by Tony Evans? Worth reading?

 

[The Reverand]

Peter Hooton is among the most horrible of reds - I despise him!

 

[kithnou]

Try this link -

While I appreciate it mate, can we find it anywhere in HD?

 

[kithnou]

Ok here it is, currently only in 360p but there should be a 720p option in a bit once its finished processing... having said that the rip isn't the best quality to begin with but good enough I guess.

Unavailable due to copyright?

Anyone able to find an HD version as a torrent?

 

[davek]

Has anyone read the book by Tony Evans? Worth reading?

If it's anythng like that "documentary" I wouldn't bother.

 

[wba83]

Peter Hooton is among the most horrible of reds - I despise him!

One smug (I done everything before everyone else) gobshite

 

[Toffeelover]

The 60's and 70's in Liverpool were not so clever either.

 

[4737carlin]

Peter Hooton is among the most horrible of reds - I despise him!

One of the 1000+ I muted on Twitter

 

[Toffee in Jandals]

The way that Heysel was presented there was a 'kin disgrace. The only thing that came out that was honest was Lawrenson's statement that their club swept Heysel under the carpet.

That section on Heysel was prefaced by a general sweeping statement about hooliganism: "all of football was at it". Then the Kopite talking about the state of the ground and getting bottles thrown at them first and being provoked. Then rounding it all off with "the city's shame".

Utter disgrace.

The makers of that documentary have done a disservice in failing to document history in anything like an authentic way. Another whitewash. There's going to be people who'll watch this documentary down the years and think that was the full story...another Kopite hard luck story where even in an event when they killed 39 innocent people they come out of it as the real victims.

Oh, and by the way, the rest of it:

• Even when Everton are winning stuff it's all still in relation to what that 'kin lot were doing
• The shower of Liverpool luvvie bellends
• Lauding those scumbags Frankie Goes to Hollywood when that weapon Holly Johnson refused to get on a plane when he was offered "scum-class" standard tickets...yeah, real man of the people stuff that
• A "social history of football in the 80s" that didn't even mention once that a whole community in Liverpool (its black one) was completely absent from it, kept in their ghetto, because they'd have been 'kin filled in if they'd turned up in large enough numbers at Anfield or Goodison. Didn't see that inconvenient truth crashing the "all in it together against Thatcherism" storyline did we?

Felt sorry for that Evertonian in amongst it, he was the only authentic voice in it for me someone who was real where his Kopite counterpart was a stage scouse clown playing to the camera...no change there then.

I'd put off watching that documentary and now I realise why: I knew it'd be a mixture of fair comment and fabrication...when it really could and should have been a lot more.

2/10.

Watched it last night and agree mostly with you Dave, though I did think the doco was fair in their representation of our success in the 80's. The "in relation to what they did" could equally be levelled by the RS against us (for example 85/86 and the point was made that we were up there with them in the title race / FA Cup final).

Lawrensen's honest statement that Liverpool FC did sweep Heysel under the carpet was surprising, he went up in my estimation to be fair.

 

[davek]

Watched it last night and agree mostly with you Dave, though I did think the doco was fair in their representation of our success in the 80's. The "in relation to what they did" could equally be levelled by the RS against us (for example 85/86 and the point was made that we were up there with them in the title race / FA Cup final).

Lawrensen's honest statement that Liverpool FC did sweep Heysel under the carpet was surprising, he went up in my estimation to be fair.

The success we had was framed every single time (4 trophies) in terms of "and now Everton were out of the shadows of Liverpool there were two successful teams in the city"...sorry, apart from the 87 title which was just barely referred to.

Basically it was written and made by a bunch of Kopites who wanted to frame our 80s achievements (when WE knocked THEM off their 'kin perches before United ever did) as Everton taking crumbs off their table.

BTW, any Everton fan doing that documentary would have kicked it off with a historical account that underlined that before the 1970s Liverpool were in OUR shadow for the first 80 years of their existence.

 

[davek]

I also thought Sharp and Reid were way too passive in going along with a narrative that basically said that we were thrilled just to be challenging Liverpool.

That's not how it was at the time, that's an attitude that's been overlain in retrospect. At the time, by '84, no Everton supporter or player feared that lot or thought we were 'challenging'. The reverse in fact, we fancied our chances - and I for one thought the two teams HK put together were better outfits than any put together by that shower.

We are totally cowed as a club to that lot. That two of our greats would frame their own successes in that supine manner just underlines it.

 

[Toffeelover]

I also thought Sharp and Reid were way too passive in going along with a narrative that basically said that we were thrilled just to be challenging Liverpool.

That's not how it was at the time, that's an attitude that's been overlain in retrospect. At the time, by '84, no Everton supporter or player feared that lot or thought we were 'challenging'. The reverse in fact, we fancied our chances - and I for one thought the two teams HK put together were better outfits than any put together by that shower.

We are totally cowed as a club to that lot. That two of our greats would frame their own successes in that supine manner just underlines it.

Me, don't care if it was the 60's, 70's, 80's or later always hated them.

 

[tmgc]

Peter Hooton is among the most horrible of reds - I despise him!

One bad Texan him.