Everton Transfer Thread - Summer 2020

[Disgruntledgoat]

The difference is though, neither Martinez nor Moyes operated under an owner who was clearly ready to pump significant funds in and want to see quite a sharp return on the investment. Moyes and Martinez also made very strong starts so bought themselves credit and time.

If you were a manager at Everton now, I wouldn't look much beyond my first year. Get a good year under your belt, ideally getting into Europe and build from there. You won't get 3 or 4 years to put a team together if you don't make an impact

I reckon Carlo Ancelotti will get as much time as he wants.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Apparently Lossl is coming back once his loan is up, Stek will be the one to go

I doubt Lossl stays unless he's given assurance he will have a fair chance to beat out Pickford as the first team GK. He can't think of himself as half-decent and let a poor season like Pickford's keep him out of the team indefinitely.

Also if we don't want to give Lossl that chance we should probably bring in someone who we do want to have a shot. Because this season from Pickford can't just be forgotten.

 

[Lanolin]

The difference is though, neither Martinez nor Moyes operated under an owner who was clearly ready to pump significant funds in and want to see quite a sharp return on the investment. Moyes and Martinez also made very strong starts so bought themselves credit and time.

If you were a manager at Everton now, I wouldn't look much beyond my first year. Get a good year under your belt, ideally getting into Europe and build from there. You won't get 3 or 4 years to put a team together if you don't make an impact

Yeah my point was more that people often say the fans are impatient, but really we're on to about the 5th new start of the last 15 years. There's only so many times you can buy into the idea of a team growing together I think, when you keep seeing it fail you lose faith. We need to sign youngish players to grow, but it's no good saying the fans have to just let players make mistakes left right and centre and lose us games when that's what we've been seeing for years.

As an aside the idea that Kean has been given a raw deal by fans is absolutely amazing. There's not many clubs where he'd be greeted with a massive roar every time he comes on with his record. The fans have been astonishingly patient with him, all things considered.

 

[catcherintherye]

I have these discussions on twitter, regarding signing older players and the Likes of Allan.
And you hear the constant shouts, of to old, no resale value, left with another player we won’t be able to shift in a couple of years. All decent points.

But unfortunately we can’t attract the best players at the perfect age. 23 to 26. Only the level down and players who have failed at bigger clubs or are bit part players at other clubs like iwobi.

2 of the best in the prem at the moment, grealish and Maddison are very unlikely coming to us.

We have done well signing young players Over the last few years. Stones & lukaku we made big profits, as we would if we sold Richarlison, DCL and Holgate. I still think we will on Kean, if we keep him for a few years. Even made a small profit on lookman. But if we stick to that philosophy, the best ones will want to leave if you’re still hanging around 7th and 8th, Richarlison will be next.
It’s a never ending project.

So maybe signing better 28/29 year olds moving forward, than the likes of bolasie, Schneiderlin, siggurdsson and Walcott. Very good young players and taking a gamble on the odd mid age range player. Like Rabiot, who is very talented, but has had a few issues. And would maybe be available to a club like us.

Then if we starting moving up the league, and I believe 5th( with city’s ban) isnt out the question next season when you look at Leicester and Sheff Utd. Then you can start to attract the better mid age players. And having Ancelotti would be a huge help to.

Yes all good points. I was thinking this with Walter the other day. His problem was that he couldn't sustain his team. He actually bought really well. If you keep signing good players you will be ok. As long as every season or 2 you keep moving good young player(s) then you're fine. We know Moshiri can sustain the investment, we know Brands is buying and developing players in the background to generate funds, but we do need to sort the first team out.

I also think, as you say the league becomes very open moving forward, and there's a real opportunity if you get things right, with a couple of players to push for 3rd.

 

[catcherintherye]

I reckon Carlo Ancelotti will get as much time as he wants.

Maybe. If he's in the bottom half in 18 months, I have my doubts.

 

[carolinablue232]

I doubt Brandt would have come here. I think you need to be getting regular European football to attract such players. Either way he's scored 3 in 29 this season for Dortmund, so it shows mistakes can also be made doing that.

As for Allan that is a fair point. I just feel if fees start to collapse sharper for players over 27, there will be enormous potential value there.

3 in 29 but he’s still quality if you actually watch them play. Agreed he wouldn’t have come here though.

 

[catcherintherye]

Yeah my point was more that people often say the fans are impatient, but really we're on to about the 5th new start of the last 15 years. There's only so many times you can buy into the idea of a team growing together I think, when you keep seeing it fail you lose faith. We need to sign youngish players to grow, but it's no good saying the fans have to just let players make mistakes left right and centre and lose us games when that's what we've been seeing for years.

As an aside the idea that Kean has been given a raw deal by fans is absolutely amazing. There's not many clubs where he'd be greeted with a massive roar every time he comes on with his record. The fans have been astonishingly patient with him, all things considered.

Yes I think we have to be careful with the idea managers get that much time. In general Everton fans are patient, but thats in more limited supply now. Probably one positive for Ancelotti is he has as much support as any manager I've seen for Everton at a similar point.

I do agree with building a squad, but the idea can tend to get taken to it's illogical extreme by certain sections. The first team manager really can't look much beyond the next series of games. I think we have the right manager for that now. Brands has to look after the long term, but that long term only works if youre winning on the pitch.

If you take Liverpool as an example. They are widely (and rightly) regarded as fantastic at recruitment. However this was not the case pre Klopp. They were seen as a joke. They'd just spunked a load of money on Benteke and Balotelli who were a huge waste, alongside Borini, Suso, Alberto etc. Lallana, Firmino, Lovren, Origi, Henderson etc were all not far behind in money wasted. They went and got a top class manager in, who ultimately made most of the players above better and the new signings they made worked, and suddenly the recruitment guys look brilliant. They are their to facilitate the manager not vice versa.

My view, for the most part is concentrate on the next season. Sort that out. Have 3 or 4 good years and things will start to look rosier.

 

[catcherintherye]

3 in 29 but he’s still quality if you actually watch them play. Agreed he wouldn’t have come here though.

I'll be honest I haven't watched him. Either way, as we said even he was out of our league. So there has to be some realism as to who we can and can't attract when we don't regularly play in Europe.

 

[carolinablue232]

I'll be honest I haven't watched him. Either way, as we said even he was out of our league. So there has to be some realism as to who we can and can't attract when we don't regularly play in Europe.

Exactly. Which is why I’d brought up someone like Akanji who Dortmund got from Basel as a better example. There’s talent in lower leagues but our scouting has to actually identify them and we might have to take some risks that they’ll adapt. When you look at our recruitment history, we very rarely look at players not already in the major European leagues and when we do, for some reason they’re Cenk Tosun who are already mid career and have no upside.

 

[TheBigIguana]

I'll be honest I haven't watched him. Either way, as we said even he was out of our league. So there has to be some realism as to who we can and can't attract when we don't regularly play in Europe.

Exactly. Which is why I’d brought up someone like Akanji who Dortmund got from Basel as a better example. There’s talent in lower leagues but our scouting has to actually identify them and we might have to take some risks that they’ll adapt. When you look at our recruitment history, we very rarely look at players not already in the major European leagues and when we do, for some reason they’re Cenk Tosun who are already mid career and have no upside.

The biggest problem for us is because we are going to have to go for guys who are a bit more diamond in the rough we are also going to have more failures and more long term developments. That requires patience from the fans but also from the boardroom. If you give up on it every couple of years and start buying Allans to chase a quick fix the original plan will fail every time.

 

[carolinablue232]

The biggest problem for us is because we are going to have to go for guys who are a bit more diamond in the rough we are also going to have more failures and more long term developments. That requires patience from the fans but also from the boardroom. If you give up on it every couple of years and start buying Allans to chase a quick fix the original plan will fail every time.

Needs to be a mix. Can’t go fully either way and sustain. My ideal scenario would be, buy someone like Allan because we 100% need quality there, and then we proactively bring in a couple younger midfielders who have shown promise and are worthy of a squad place now. Then maybe in 2 years, Allan declines but we already have his replacement who has been around the squad getting some minutes for two years rather than starting over. It’s tough to execute something like that of course.

 

[davek]

YIKES

Joke club.

No wonder we've won nothing for 25 years.

 

[chippy1722]

We haven't tried it though. Signing one player per year who fits isn't really trying it.

Any young foreign player would have to be mad to join us, we have a history of buying and quickly disposing of them sometimes without even playing, recently the likes of Tanashaj, Onyekuru and Vlasic, you can go back further to Dier, Mustafi etc. Kean May end up being the most expensive of the lot.
Off the top of my head I can’t think of one young foreign player who was successful here.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Any young foreign player would have to be mad to join us, we have a history of buying and quickly disposing of them sometimes without even playing, recently the likes of Tanashaj, Onyekuru and Vlasic, you can go back further to Dier, Mustafi etc. Kean May end up being the most expensive of the lot.
Off the top of my head I can’t think of one young foreign player who was successful here.

It's a bad record on young players full stop. DCL and Holgate having worked out in the end is the exception.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Needs to be a mix. Can’t go fully either way and sustain. My ideal scenario would be, buy someone like Allan because we 100% need quality there, and then we proactively bring in a couple younger midfielders who have shown promise and are worthy of a squad place now. Then maybe in 2 years, Allan declines but we already have his replacement who has been around the squad getting some minutes for two years rather than starting over. It’s tough to execute something like that of course.

I don't think it does. Our best players right now were 21, 19, 24, and 25 when we signed them (Richarlison, DCL, Gomes, Digne). Only DCL wasn't PL quality from the start. I'm not saying don't sign anyone over 25 but as someone said before it is about value and Allan isn't that. If Delph was actually good that would be the kind of signing that would be good value.