What's the overall plan - manager and squad?

How long do we give the next guy?


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bicycleheader

Brahms Third Racket
I've been trying in the Silva thread to get an idea of what people want and expect in regards to the manager and the job to be done with the squad. Lots of shouts to sack but not much idea of the details of what to do next.

I don't think you have to be a DOF to have an opinion or suggestions on this.

An overall joined up plan taking everything into consideration.

  1. I don't think we have the money to get a top level manager like Jose Conte or Mancini, and if we did we don't have the money for the signings they would want. I also don't think the risk is worth it right at this moment after the money we have already wasted. If you think this is the best plan after Silva, how do we do it and what's your thoughts on the wage bill we'd have to manage, on the financial risk and getting past FFP?
  2. I don't think we can reach our goals of pushing the top 6 and beyond by getting in what some fans see as a solid manager, who would probably/possibly get better results off the bat but would be moving us away from any plan to challenge in the future. See our last two managers or Moyes or Dyche or Wagner or Rafael for this example. If this is your shout after we sack Marco, with them how do we go about getting to the type of football that would see us making the CL? What are you looking for for the next few seasons? Is it just a return to our best of the rest status and not much more?
  3. I do think we need the third option, considering the financial limitations mentioned in 1 and the goals for the future mentioned in 2. A prospect with some track record but who would be a gamble. Could even be an older manager but untried in England. Somebody who brings the possibility of something more with the possibility of failure rather than the guarantee of average to good but with no possiblity of something more as mentioned in 2. Somebody who can bring the type of football needed to get to where we want to go.
I honestly think the 3rd will be our option for the next manager and it's what they went for with Silva. Obviously it's not working out, but if it is option 3 there is always a risk of a bad first season or a bad patch whilst they make changes. Moving a team from thinking firstly on defence to thinking how to control a game more. It also suits the idea of this squad refresh with Brands going for younger players to work within a certain type of structure that the new guy would have to accept and fit into.

So what's your option and the how's and whys of it? And then how long does the next boss get? (I have way too much time on my hands this week, so apologies for all the long posts)
 
I don't agree with any options, you shouldn't have a time limit on a manager, in an ideal world maybe but in the real world, results talk. So many factors to consider, how is the football on show, how are the results, how is squad harmony.

Silva is still here anyway so it's all a moot point.
 
theres only one answer, the bottom one.

we need the right man

whoever that is

you wouldn't of put ole in charge of united at the start of the season, but hes gone in and is the perfect fit for that club.

god knows who our perfect fit ill be, but we got to start trying to find him., not standing by someone for the sake of it when they are clearly clueless.

where would we be now if we had stuck by mike walker for ten years , cos we didn't want to look like a sacking club??
 
We need to invest in a Top manager not one who we think could or might be a Top manager, but seeing as we won't I don't know.
 
There’s a distinct lack of realistic expectations amongst the fan base.

Lots remember us winning titles so feel that’s where we’re entitled to be: wrong.

How can any manager carry out a rebuild AND get into Europe at the same time?

I don’t mind two midtable finishes if I can see actual progress within the club and some sort of development on the pitch.

My main gripe with Silva is that irrespective of the league position I don’t think a single player has improved under him.
 

theres only one answer, the bottom one.

we need the right man

whoever that is

you wouldn't of put ole in charge of united at the start of the season, but hes gone in and is the perfect fit for that club.

god knows who our perfect fit ill be, but we got to start trying to find him., not standing by someone for the sake of it when they are clearly clueless.

where would we be now if we had stuck by mike walker for ten years , cos we didn't want to look like a sacking club??

All different scenarios there mate. Ole went to a United team that stopped playing for the manager so he took over an already full of class team and harmonised them. Ole didn't do so well at a team that needed work on as in Cardiff. Walker was treading near relegation and never had a relationship with the players so right choice sacking him. Silva has come into a mess and we cannot seem to shift the deadwood so difficult job for him. You can't keep sacking managers because the state of the squad as adequate time has to be given to sort a mess out. A team like United has already class players and the new managers job is just to get them playing together as a team rather than individuals. Totally different from us.

I would go for option 2 as it is enough time to make an impact on the squad and enough time to get your own players in to fairly be able to judge if we are going in the right or wrong direction.
 
I didn't vote the bottom one but it is sort of the one, not just sack until we find the right one but sack every manager that isn't showing enough to suggest he will be the right one

silva isn't showing it and hasn't for 4 months now
 

Whilst we don't have any god given right to finish in the top 4 or even the top 6, I honestly feel we should at a minimum always be in the top 10. I really don't think thats too much to ask or should be too difficult a task to accomplish for any competent manager. It should really be the minimum standard for our club and therefore if a manager finishes in the bottom half of the table I would be inclined to say that they aren't good enough. Even in a manager's first season he should be able to get us into the top 10, "transitional" season or not. When I see us below West Ham and Watford, level on points with Bournemouth, I just bow my head in disgust. That's a general picture as well, when you examine certain individual games the case against him becomes even more damning.

I would add to this that when people say they're happy so long as the football is better (i;e Silva vs Big Sam) I would generally agree with that- but if it doesn't amount to anything tangible (climbing the table, going deep in cup competitions) you end up just like Bournemouth, playing some pretty stuff, well regarded by the media but really you're just spinning your wheels and not going anywhere. That's not good enough for us. That's not a defence for Big Sam either, he was a slug who played abysmal football. Personally I've had a long held belief that a Simeone type (just Simeone really but it'll never happen) is the perfect manager for us. Plays decent enough stuff but has the balls and mentality to go up against the big boys, being pragmatic when necessary. Some people may say it's a bit of a "small time" mentality, but honestly I'm happy to revel in our status as outsiders and underdogs. We haven't done anything to justify the media or the football world viewing us as a big club in a long time. The club and the board talk a big game, but our actions on the pitch don't reflect any of it.

Moyes used to try and garner the spirit of the underdog, but the problem with Moyes was that he hardly ever won any big games to change the depiction of Everton to the wider footballing world. When he said we were the underdog it felt like a justification for losing big games we weren't expected to win, not as a rallying call to go and knock out Ivan Drago. It's a problem that exists in the club as a whole though. Look at just this season, at some of the results teams around our level have had away from home to top 6 sides. We get a few jabs in and maybe bloody a nose a little but it never results in a victory. Simeone took the fight to Real and Barca and has managed in intervals to topple that Duopoly. We need a figure like that and I just don't think Silva has the stomach or ability to do it.
 
I didn’t want Silva at the start
Emery , Fonseca , were 2 of my choices
I still don’t want him as I believe his abilities in organising a defence and game management are poor
However we sacked Koeman , Allardyce in quick succession and they have left us with an over bloated mess of a squad
Apart from Mina all of Brands /Silvas signings have settled well and have to varying degrees improved us.
However these are still glaring holes to be filled on the first 11 never mind the squad and Silva can’t be blamed for that yet
Now and again we get glimmers of hope
RS home and away , parts of the Arsenal and City games
The first half against Newcastle was as good as I’ve seen this season
However game management let Silva down again , as it did against Wolves and Bournemouth away and other games as well.
Financially I don’t think we have any option but to give Silva this season and next and hope he and Brands can ship out a lot of players to free up wages for new signings
However the signs are not promising on Silva.
When he goes we need to throw the kitchen sink at a big name proven manager and give him and Brands the funds
With the new stadium on the horizon I’m not sure how realistic that is
 
Everyone wants someone to build, very few want to give anyone time to build.

Rinse and repeat.

Im surprised that anyone thought our basket case, powder puff squad wasn't going to have to take a step back to take a step forward.

Three year piece of work for me to run the anti virus, if its done any quicker it will be a terrific job.

As for the squad. Its a precarious position. We have unwanted high earners on long contracts. Its not as simple as just people saying get rid, as we still have a liability on most of those transfers. If we sell below that liability we crystallise a loss that takes from transfer funds. Its why i say its a three year piece of work. Some of those unwanted players will frustratingly still be here next season. Ultimately we need to move to players U25 with a high ceiling of potential, we need to invest and invest wisely rather then spend, that is an incremental process.

The team itself needs a clear consistent strategy that is congruent. That is not the case at moment, the team is poorly built and has never gelled. There is no consistent strategy to how this team is built, its simply a collection of players signed for various different reasons by random individuals who have been at the club. We are what we look, a mismatch of a team built by five different managers with five different ideology's philosophy's and out look on the game.

The defense rests! ;)
 
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theres only one answer, the bottom one.

we need the right man

whoever that is

you wouldn't of put ole in charge of united at the start of the season, but hes gone in and is the perfect fit for that club.

god knows who our perfect fit ill be, but we got to start trying to find him., not standing by someone for the sake of it when they are clearly clueless.

where would we be now if we had stuck by mike walker for ten years , cos we didn't want to look like a sacking club??

LOL it’s not happening he will be Everton manager nxt season ( Silva )
 
theres only one answer, the bottom one.

we need the right man

whoever that is

you wouldn't of put ole in charge of united at the start of the season, but hes gone in and is the perfect fit for that club.

god knows who our perfect fit ill be, but we got to start trying to find him., not standing by someone for the sake of it when they are clearly clueless.

where would we be now if we had stuck by mike walker for ten years , cos we didn't want to look like a sacking club??

I should've put Sack every season until we get it right, for that last option.

And that's fine you pick that but how do we manage the huge outlay for wages if we keep doing that. Then instability with the players. Then don't you think it becomes more difficult to convince a decent manager to join if they know they'll be out the door quick sharp if it doesn't start off right?

Also youre judging Solsjkaer on a couple of months with a good squad. There is no guarantee he is the perfect fit. Could be, but we simply can't know in such short time. I bloody hope so tho, as a strong Man U helps keep them lot in check!
 

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