Munich Shooting

[Bruce Wayne]

A bit of perspective? Tell that to the victim's families, Bruce.

And other than that psycho in Nice, generally people don't use vehicles to murder people.

I'm not sure you haven't missed my point entirely.

 

[peteblue]

Absolutely nothing like one another. To come to the conclusion that Merkel is directly responsible because an asylum seeker stabbed somebody is naive at best.

To compare it with Blair's atrocities is worse.

Death is death. If a business owner makes a decision that leads to the death of an employee or customer then they will be prosecuted. Politicians should be held to account in exactly the same way. Both Merkel and Blair made decisions, that they didnt have to make, that are leading to deaths......you seem more concerned with numbers......

 

[LydiateLee]

It can't be stopped. It's actually genius if you think about it. You cannot stop a movement if it's whole premise is to destroy life by ending it's own. The only way to stop this [Poor language removed] is to (hear me out) stop the press coverage !!! If they don't have an audience...the spread of fear lessens. Unfortunatly With the huge pickup of twitter, facebook, youtube...blah blah blah it is literally impossible. It's a new war and we are very very unprepared. Btw I'm not talking religeon here, Not race either....this is terrorism and it will be televised !!!

Nail on the head.

You can't prevent this. I have been saying this myself, just don't report on it. Lie if needs be, even if ISIS are proven responsible just record intelligence internally but fabricate a report denying any IS involvement. It is the hysteria and attention that drives their message.

 

[bring back the catt]

Death is death. If a business owner makes a decision that leads to the death of an employee or customer then they will be prosecuted. Politicians should be held to account in exactly the same way. Both Merkel and Blair made decisions, that they didnt have to make, that are leading to deaths......you seem more concerned with numbers......

Questions:
What do you call someone who kills?
Answer, A murderer

What do you call somebody who kills more than one?
Answer, A serial killer.

What do you call someone responsible for the deaths of many?
Answer, A politician.

One of the biggest reasons for not assessing the problems faced today is nobody seems willing to address the cause of the problem and are more obsessed with the effect. This leads to amending principals as opposed to tackling them because too many are more concerned with which particular noun they use.
I don't advocate too much Liberalism, but politics throughout the ages has always lead to;
A surfeit of conservatism will always lead to anarchy,
A surfeit of socialism will always lead to apathy.

Only an all-party debate can resolve theses problems along with co-operation from ALL nations.
Is this pipe-dream too much to hope for to tackle, what is, a global problem created by a tiny minority of dissidents?

 

[bring back the catt]

Merkel was told, but went ahead anyway.

And we were told we'd be safer in the EU. Not much evidence of that over the last 6 or so weeks, is there?

I think Merkel was dreaming of receiving The Nobel Peace Prize for services to humanity, and it was all about HER and little else.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Death is death. If a business owner makes a decision that leads to the death of an employee or customer then they will be prosecuted. Politicians should be held to account in exactly the same way. Both Merkel and Blair made decisions, that they didnt have to make, that are leading to deaths......you seem more concerned with numbers......

How many might have died if a safe haven wasn't provided?

 

[Nil Satis Niasse Optimum]

I think Merkel was dreaming of receiving The Nobel Peace Prize for services to humanity, and it was all about HER and little else.

I continue to struggle to understand her open door policy. Seeing these latest events just confirms to me that letting anybody and everybody in was completely the wrong thing to do. She was warned, but she did it regardless. Didn't the Paris attacker enter Germany under the guise of being a refugee? Then these latest incidents. How many more will happen thanks to her rolling out the red carpet to people who want to murder innocent people? I've travelled between Germany and various other countries without having to show any form of ID. Once they're in they're free to move around, smuggle illegally-bought weapons, etc. It's scary thinking about it. With the money that Germany and Europe and the EU has, was it really too much to expect them to have a plan and stop people from flooding in without knowing anything about them at all?

 

[peteblue]

How many might have died if a safe haven wasn't provided?

Who knows, and how many have died trying to reach Europe. The UN has not covered itself in glory in this respect, and the USA whose president likes the label 'the leader of the free world' has been absolutely woeful and shown no leadership at all. What I have never understood with all of this refugee movement is why the overwhelming majority appear to be men in the 20-40 age range. Do they not wish to fight for their own country and sort out it's problems. Send all the women and children over by all means, send over the older folk and we can look after them,but why on earth are we taking in fit young men who then seem to be the ones who cause any trouble...........

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Who knows, and how many have died trying to reach Europe. The UN has not covered itself in glory in this respect, and the USA whose president likes the label 'the leader of the free world' has been absolutely woeful and shown no leadership at all. What I have never understood with all of this refugee movement is why the overwhelming majority appear to be men in the 20-40 age range. Do they not wish to fight for their own country and sort out it's problems. Send all the women and children over by all means, send over the older folk and we can look after them,but why on earth are we taking in fit young men who then seem to be the ones who cause any trouble...........

To be quite honest with you, if Britain erupted into civil war I couldn't give a toss about the state of 'my' country. Nationality is a meaningless, man-made concept. I would care significantly about ensuring the safety and wellbeing of me and my family.

I'm struggling to understand any notion of 'means testing' these things. We rightly look on people like Oscar Schindler or Nicholas Winton in incredibly high regard, so I find it hard to really fathom why we would want to turn some people away. If some bad apples tried to take advantage of this then shame on them, not the people of German that opened their arms to them. They should be proud of their actions and we shouldn't let the actions of a few sad people change what was a fine thing.

Lets do a back of a fag packet calculation here. It's estimated that around 11% of the Syrian population have died or been injured in the fighting. Germany has believed to have taken in around 100,000 Syrian refugees since the war started, so even with this basic calculation, it's perhaps reasonable to suggest that doing so saved maybe 10,000 lives. Maybe that puts things into perspective a little?

 

[SNova]

One of the first duties of government is to protect its people.

It's fascinating to see the lack of belief in the nation state by many on the left and in the establishment. And I believe the rise and success of Brexit and Trump is due to the people once again believing in the nation state and rejecting internationalism and globalism.

 

[peteblue]

To be quite honest with you, if Britain erupted into civil war I couldn't give a toss about the state of 'my' country. Nationality is a meaningless, man-made concept. I would care significantly about ensuring the safety and wellbeing of me and my family.

I'm struggling to understand any notion of 'means testing' these things. We rightly look on people like Oscar Schindler or Nicholas Winton in incredibly high regard, so I find it hard to really fathom why we would want to turn some people away. If some bad apples tried to take advantage of this then shame on them, not the people of German that opened their arms to them. They should be proud of their actions and we shouldn't let the actions of a few sad people change what was a fine thing.

Lets do a back of a [Poor language removed] packet calculation here. It's estimated that around 11% of the Syrian population have died or been injured in the fighting. Germany has believed to have taken in around 100,000 Syrian refugees since the war started, so even with this basic calculation, it's perhaps reasonable to suggest that doing so saved maybe 10,000 lives. Maybe that puts things into perspective a little?

"I would care significantly about ensuring the safety and wellbeing of me and my family". This is probably most peoples thoughts, so my question still stands, where are all the women and children ? Also if you happened to be German, would you not 'care significantly about ensuring the safety and wellbeing of yourself and your family'

It strikes me that we are not resolving any issues but are merely moving the problems over to Europe. Why not go the whole distance and move them all over, then the EU can lay claim to the whole of Syria, send in an army to clear it out and set it up as a protectorate. Of course all the other middle east countries might object, but having done little to either resolve the situation or provide assistance why should anyone listen......

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

I'm not sure you haven't missed my point entirely.

Oh I got your point, all right....Dismissive of risk as it appeared. Disrespectful to the victims as it was. These aren't isolated events, indeed, they're becoming ever more frequent - don't pretend otherwise.

I mean....Would you actually say to those families "Well, y'know? They might've got hit by a bus tomorrow"?

I prefer to err on the side of caution. If that means others don't get the benefit our society gives them (It's not all one-way traffic, with us benefitting from immigration more than they benefit, as some'd have you believe) to keep me & mine at a far lower risk from the dangers of attack - be that from fundamentalists, or just plain mentalists - then so be it. I could live quite happily (And safer) without the so-called 'benefit' immigration brings me (I don't reap much of a direct benefit, and no tangible one)

Merkel was warned the likelihood of these things happening would increase; she's got plenty to answer for.

Honestly - you'd think everything was hunky-dory; and that people have no right to share their observations, be outraged or offer solutions.

I said months back that the oil states are replete with wealth and could easily accommodate the lot of those refugees; but they won't because of the mentality of them - humanitarians the lot of them Gulf states, aren't they? - And I got harangued for it.

But I'll say it again...And again...And again. It wasn't the west's problem - it's been made the west's problem, by the political cowards who are too scared to tell sheik mustafa shi'ite to pull his bleedin' finger out and do his bit to help his fellow muslim refugees out, in case he turns off the oil tap.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

"I would care significantly about ensuring the safety and wellbeing of me and my family". This is probably most peoples thoughts, so my question still stands, where are all the women and children ? Also if you happened to be German, would you not 'care significantly about ensuring the safety and wellbeing of yourself and your family'

It strikes me that we are not resolving any issues but are merely moving the problems over to Europe. Why not go the whole distance and move them all over, then the EU can lay claim to the whole of Syria, send in an army to clear it out and set it up as a protectorate. Of course all the other middle east countries might object, but having done little to either resolve the situation or provide assistance why should anyone listen......

Bingo!

Just beat me to it because you're a tad more succinct!*

(ONLY a tad - don't get ideas above yer station, pete )

 

[bring back the catt]

Oh I got your point, all right....Dismissive of risk as it appeared. Disrespectful to the victims as it was. These aren't isolated events, indeed, they're becoming ever more frequent - don't pretend otherwise.

I mean....Would you actually say to those families "Well, y'know? They might've got hit by a bus tomorrow"?

I prefer to err on the side of caution. If that means others don't get the benefit our society gives them (It's not all one-way traffic, with us benefitting from immigration more than they benefit, as some'd have you believe) to keep me & mine at a far lower risk from the dangers of attack - be that from fundamentalists, or just plain mentalists - then so be it. I could live quite happily (And safer) without the so-called 'benefit' immigration brings me (I don't reap much of a direct benefit, and no tangible one)

Merkel was warned the likelihood of these things happening would increase; she's got plenty to answer for.

Honestly - you'd think everything was hunky-dory; and that people have no right to share their observations, be outraged or offer solutions.

I said months back that the oil states are replete with wealth and could easily accommodate the lot of those refugees; but they won't because of the mentality of them - humanitarians the lot of them Gulf states, aren't they? - And I got harangued for it.

But I'll say it again...And again...And again. It wasn't the west's problem - it's been made the west's problem, by the political cowards who are too scared to tell sheik mustafa shi'ite to pull his bleedin' finger out and do his bit to help his fellow muslim refugees out, in case he turns off the oil tap.

Unbelievable wealth. Obscene wealth. In fact their wealth has built more than one refugee centre which are air conditioned and purpose built to hold over 3 million persons. The fact languages are similar, climate and religion too, and geographically advantaged and free, one has to ask, just WHY are these facilities empty. Forget all other counter debates, let's answer that question first.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Unbelievable wealth. Obscene wealth. In fact their wealth has built more than one refugee centre which are air conditioned and purpose built to hold over 3 million persons. The fact languages are similar, climate and religion too, and geographically advantaged and free, one has to ask, just WHY are these facilities empty. Forget all other counter debates, let's answer that question first.

You only have to look at how them gulf states treat their immigrant builders (Qatar a case in point) to see how they operate...