Roberto Martinez discussion

[deipnosophist]

Good post mate, thanks.

RM is looking to get the whole playing side of the organisation singing from the same hymn sheet and get away from some ad hoc way of building a first team.

That is all very well mate. It's attempting to sing in unison the wrong hymn that's causing me some disquiet.

 

[deipnosophist]

...but I remain in the 'let's sight his summer transfer activity before we throw babies out with the bathwater' camp

 

[ianefc]

May a suggest the thread title is now changed on this to Martinez overall, As I very much doubt many people are debating whether they are wearing the Martinez mask after 19 months in charge. You are either for him being manager or not. There will be no one left who doesn't want him but is putting on a brave face.

 

[davek]

When your manager cant even field a balanced side and fails to win in 6 games, its no longer cynicism, its realism.

Fickleism I call it.

 

[nsno-chris]

Philosophy or points?
Philosophy or points?

Points come first

If he hasn't got the player at his disposal in the first team to implement his philosophy then that gets binned until he does.

Implement it at u16/19/21 so the youngsters are used to by all means, the transition will be easier for them if they make the first team

 

[davek]

The problem is tho (and I havnt read that full post/article yet) does Roberto's model work? Yes getting the whole club singing from the same Hyme sheet, playing the same style from top to bottom is great. If ur building a club obvs that's the way to go but....

If your getting the whole club playing a flawed and I dare I say maybe "out of date" tika taka style then you've got big problems, even if in theroy the method is correct.

Roberto did not play this style last season. He of course introduced a more possesion type of play which worked well. But this season he pushed it much more to complete tika taka barca boring keep the ball at the back play. And tbh unless you have a special team like the barca of 5yrs ago, it's proved not to be successfull.

If his style of football is not succesfull, he takes the whole club down with him!

No, no and thrice no.

It's a personnel issue. Call it what you want: tika taka, possession based game - football that's played with pace and precision is always the way to go. Forget the length of passes, forget the time spent in your own half. We did that last season and we mopped up 21 wins. This season players are past it and/or injured...also he bought poorly in the summer.

Let's not get bogged down in all this 'his system is outmoded' stuff. You're barking up the wrong tree, imo.

 

[bluemangroup]

Philosophy or points?
Philosophy or points?

Points come first

If he hasn't got the player at his disposal in the first team to implement his philosophy then that gets binned until he does.

Implement it at u16/19/21 so the youngsters are used to by all means, the transition will be easier for them if they make the first team

I'd rather take the hit points-wise for a season if it meant implementing a system and buying the players in that sees us rise higher than before.

 

[bizzaro]

Its also because we're lacking effective wingers.

 

[nsno-chris]

I'd rather take the hit points-wise for a season if it meant implementing a system and buying the players in that sees us rise higher than before.

Considering points effect league places, league places effects prize money, and money allows you to buy players....I'd go with points first.

If the players can't adopt his philosophy this season and that is affecting our results; what's the point?? Head, brick wall, banging

 

[bluemangroup]

Considering points effect league places, league places effects prize money, and money allows you to buy players....I'd go with points first.

If the players can't adopt his philosophy this season and that is affecting our results; what's the point?? Head, brick wall, banging

No need to be that condescending about it is there really? I get how it works, but he should be given time and money to bring in the players he wants. Last year was the perfect storm for us. This year you can see that the squad is not confident, ageing in places, suffering badly with injuries and disrupted by people like Distin arseing around behind the scenes. Let him buy his players and clear out some of the deadwood and then judge him.

 

[nsno-chris]

No need to be that condescending about it is there really? I get how it works, but he should be given time and money to bring in the players he wants. Last year was the perfect storm for us. This year you can see that the squad is not confident, ageing in places, suffering badly with injuries and disrupted by people like Distin arseing around behind the scenes. Let him buy his players and clear out some of the deadwood and then judge him.

But that's my point, the team isn't working and it's costing us points, bin the philosophy and get points on the table for this year, strengthen in the summer and see if it works next year.

and you have no idea what Distin is doing, it's just conjecture with no conclusive evidence whatsoever

 

[bluemangroup]

But that's my point, the team isn't working and it's costing us points, bin the philosophy and get points on the table for this year, strengthen in the summer and see if it works next year.

and you have no idea what Distin is doing, it's just conjecture with no conclusive evidence whatsoever

I find your use of fonts highly offensive. The club should back the manager and give him either the time or the money or both to overhaul the team, so we have a clear idea of what a Martinez team actually looks like.
And its obvious that there has been a real fallout between the manager and Distin. You don't even have to believe conjecture to see that.

 

[Khalekan]

Philosophy, schlosophy.

I have never read such garbage

FFS it is a football club, not the London School of Economics or The Sorbonne or Barkley.

If it was Alex Ferguson or Jose Mourinho whose hole this fellow had crawled up I could half undestand it.

But it ain't......it is Brent and Bobby.

The high priests of philosophyball and whose teams are further back now than they were twelve months ago.

All's I want to see from Bobby is for Everton winning a few games and exciting me on cold winter afternoons with a bit of passionate soccer......not soporific crab ball which is failing to show an end product this past two months.

If I want "philosophy" I will read Deschamps or Neitsche.

In the meantime.....please keep trying to hit Rom early play to his strengths.

 

[nsno-chris]

I find your use of fonts highly offensive. The club should back the manager and give him either the time or the money or both to overhaul the team, so we have a clear idea of what a Martinez team actually looks like.
And its obvious that there has been a real fallout between the manager and Distin. You don't even have to believe conjecture to see that.

I'm on my phone so apologies, I can't control my font it's appearing normal on my screen.

I haven't said anything different, I've said is that we need points on the board and to bin his philosophy until he has the players who can implement it, which will be in the summer.

And Distin, there is no evidence at all, only conspiracies, mainly by the same people who think that Osman pienaar, ferguson, Howard are causing disruption as well.

If he was such a disruption behind the scenes he'd be binned immediately or his contract would be terminated or he'd never see the first team again. If none of these happen and he's a massive disruption then RM is weak and can't manage his players.

 

[ijjysmith]

I do think a lot of fan upset is because we were so boss last season.

Possibly too boss. We were spoiled rotten (except at St.Mary's obviously ffs).

This season was never going to match up to it, and because its so so so bad it makes everything all that worse.

Just stay up Everton ffs. And start again.