AaronTheBlue
Player Valuation: £60m
I bought them all myself mate.
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One of the points you use to support your argument is that Martinez also wanted Stones at Wigan. Martinez wants Henen. So if you value his judgement over Stones, you have to trust his judgement in this case, too.
bobafro
Player Valuation: £8m
Does that mean that the transfer fee is the main criteria for being in the 'potential' category?
We bought Stones in January 2013 and he didn't play in our first team that season. Then he went and did pre-season with the first team prior to the following season. This is the exact same progression as Coleman with the only difference being the crazy foot infection that Seamie picked up in the states that curbed his progression into the first team.
Does George Green qualify for the "potential" bracket? We spent a good chunk on him, he was very highly rated and chased by all of the top teams.
Not having a go at all by the way but i just don't think the argument above makes sense when you think that we spent £2m on a highly rated 15 year old who would have to be considered in the "potential" category yet spending £3m on an 18 year old means he wasn't bought as "one for the future"
The Martinez Plan leaked.
Zatara
Player Valuation: £90m
To be honest the signing of McCarthy and the potential signing of Lulaku are the ones we should be looking to make 1ce a season with loans and young signings added in too.
One player of this type and over a 5year period thats half a team of top young players with the current crop also hitting their peak then too.
One player of this type and over a 5year period thats half a team of top young players with the current crop also hitting their peak then too.
marty mcfly
Player Valuation: £40m
Even assuming that is normally true. The point is that they won't be kids in a few years time. In 4 years time an 18 year old is 22, Seamus Coleman is 29, Stones is 23, McCarthy is 27, Ross is 24, Lukaku is 25 etc.
That's the ages that a team would normally be at it's peak. Arsenal would have won the league without having to buy Alexis and Ozil if City and Barca etc hadn't come along and poached their players .
The problem doing that today is that players don't want to wait when there's a big payday and guaranteed trophies somewhere else.
bobafro
Player Valuation: £8m
We have a great squad mix at the minute. Some great senior pros, some great young first teamers and some great young talent that are already pushing or will push in the coming season into the first team for the cups.
>=33 : Distin, Barry, Osman, Howard, Hibbert
30-32 : Kone, Alcaraz, Pienaar, Jagielka
27-29 : McGeady, Baines, Naismith
23-26 : Robles, Gibson, Oviedo, Mirallas, McCarthy, Coleman
<23 : Everyone else....
>=33 : Distin, Barry, Osman, Howard, Hibbert
30-32 : Kone, Alcaraz, Pienaar, Jagielka
27-29 : McGeady, Baines, Naismith
23-26 : Robles, Gibson, Oviedo, Mirallas, McCarthy, Coleman
<23 : Everyone else....
Kev The Rat
Player Valuation: £70m
OK lets put Stones in the standard young purchase category, I still disagree as he did have some not insubstantial first team action with Barnsley at Championship level unlike the likes of Green, but anyway the hit rate for these players is still extremely low. You already mentioned Green who has not really kicked on at all, I could also throw in Duffy, the previously mentioned Mustafi and Dier, even Gueye and Vellios who may now seem like jokes, but at the time of signing were viewed as players with potential.
Now contrast that low rate of success with the experienced established internationals players we have signed. McCarthy, Mirallas, Oviedo (but for injury) and going back further Fellaini, Distin, Jags and Baines. A couple of the loans have failed like Drenthe and Jo but any purchased player with a decent pedigree (i.e. substantial playing time and/or having played for their country) have in the main been very successful for us.
Now contrast that low rate of success with the experienced established internationals players we have signed. McCarthy, Mirallas, Oviedo (but for injury) and going back further Fellaini, Distin, Jags and Baines. A couple of the loans have failed like Drenthe and Jo but any purchased player with a decent pedigree (i.e. substantial playing time and/or having played for their country) have in the main been very successful for us.
kevdotbadger
Player Valuation: £2.5m
"Martinez plan", christ it sounds like the board have pulled the wool over your eyes already.
Buying youth and claiming that "it's building for the future" is idiot talk to "the board isn't investing in the quality we need", and I stand by that statement until I'm proved wrong.
You've got to remember that Martinez isn't a miracle working, he got relegated with Wigan. If we don't buy the quality we need to compete against the top, we're going to fall lower and lower and into the Championship.
Buying youth and claiming that "it's building for the future" is idiot talk to "the board isn't investing in the quality we need", and I stand by that statement until I'm proved wrong.
You've got to remember that Martinez isn't a miracle working, he got relegated with Wigan. If we don't buy the quality we need to compete against the top, we're going to fall lower and lower and into the Championship.
johnnydawg68
Chairperson, People's Front of Saint Domingo
I think it's hilarious that people moan about "not being able to win with kids" yet Everton of the 90's went with a "buy senior" players policy at the expense of youth, and as a consequence McMannaman, Fowler, Owen, and Carragher - all die hard Blues - went on to play in red. How different would Everton's history if those three had played for Everton?
You can't win with an academy team, but no one is suggesting that. Get a grip. You have to take risks on young players, either homegrown, or bought from abroad.
You can't win with an academy team, but no one is suggesting that. Get a grip. You have to take risks on young players, either homegrown, or bought from abroad.
bobafro
Player Valuation: £8m
Ya I get the point that you're making. I think Green made one or two appearances for Bradford but he wasn't a regular in the same way Stones was. And ya, Gueye and Vellios were both misses... Dier and Mustafi were hits (in my opinion) but i don't think we were able to offer them to the playing time that they wanted in order to keep them. I guess this was down to Moyes wanting experienced heads at the back. Dier is playing first team for Sporting now and Mustafi just played 3 games for the World Champions at the World Cup before getting injured.
There have been plenty of permanent signings that didn't work out so well despite being experienced players though the only one i can think of where we spent a substantial amount on the transfer fee was Bilyaletdinov. Most of the rest were nominal fees or free transfers.
I reckon one of the main reason you'll see the squad beefed up with younger players instead of your mid-20 year olds is not just sell on value but also wages. The younger players are more likely to be on relatively smaller salaries.
LOL.
I realize my previous post may come off as...a bit tittish, but come on. We're going to end up in the Championship because we aren't splashing around 20+million by the middle of July?
Calm down. We just finished 5th, with our highest Prem point total ever. And we're a young team that has an upward trajectory.
Calm down. We just finished 5th, with our highest Prem point total ever. And we're a young team that has an upward trajectory.
Come on people, why has no-one done a season 2015/16 lineup with these players in yet??
Disappointed here.
Disappointed here.
George Green is only 18. We don't know as yet what RM's plans are for him so its maybe a bit premature to criticise his progress ? We may see him on the bench before long.
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