Dave Moyes 10th anniversary thread

[Cena]

Oh dear.
And we have beaten teams we shouldnt aswell, namely the fat cat, meaga rich, spunk money on players like it doesnt matter, Man city and Chelsea.

Isnt it mad how football works!

QPR x 2

Norwich (h)

Stoke (h)

Wigan (a)

Bolton (h)

Blackburn (h)

7 games were we played negative football and simply didn't put enough effort in. 17 points dropped against teams we should of beat. All well and good doing at against City & Chelsea, but what's the point if you start slow every year and end up finishing mid-table.


We're Everton, since when did we settle for this ever?

Maybe i'm wrong but i want us winning trophies, everyone goes on about our history, well let's start living up to that. Is Moyes happy with that? He shouldn't be and nor with those games above and the majority was his fault we didn't do better.

[paulbefc]

Norwich have beaten teams we should of this season, that's why we're currently 13th

Judge at the end of the season. We're right smack dab in the middle of the hardest two months of the season. Have a look at the fixtures we have in the last 2 and a half months of the year, then look at how we've done against that type of team in those two months in the last 5/6 years. You will see that there is no point judging this season at all yet. We could even win silverware yet. We're 13th now, yes. Will we even be bottom half at the end of the season? Will we be below Norwich? The past suggests almost certainly not. So there's plenty still to change. No point getting down about being below Norwich when we will probably be out of sight of them come the end of the season.

[RadioFriendlyUnitShifter]

Oh dear.
And we have beaten teams we shouldnt aswell, namely the fat cat, meaga rich, spunk money on players like it doesnt matter, Man city and Chelsea.

Isnt it mad how football works!

Twice. We've underperformed against teams we should have beaten a hell of a lot more. That's why we're in 13th, and yes sure, we have a game in hand, but that's at Anfield. And by your own logic we shouldn't get anything there, as they're a mega rich team who spunk money on players like it doesn't matter.

[Cena]

Judge at the end of the season. We're right smack dab in the middle of the hardest two months of the season. Have a look at the fixtures we have in the last 2 and a half months of the year, then look at how we've done against that type of team in those two months in the last 5/6 years. You will see that there is no point judging this season at all yet. We could even win silverware yet. We're 13th now, yes. Will we even be bottom half at the end of the season? Will we be below Norwich? The past suggests almost certainly not. So there's plenty still to change. No point getting down about being below Norwich when we will probably be out of sight of them come the end of the season.

I don't think we'll end up 13th, prob be 8th, and even then, 8th is nowhere near good enough for me, as i say, we're Everton, we shouldn't settle for this being the norm.

[The Equaliser]

Oh dear.
And we have beaten teams we shouldnt aswell, namely the fat cat, meaga rich, spunk money on players like it doesnt matter, Man city and Chelsea.

Isnt it mad how football works!

Insane isn't it ?! It seems that the league position mid-season is more important than the position at the end of the season for some.

Sure when you've run out of things to criticise Moyes about, why not blame him for things that he has no control over. Such as the PL cancelling a fixture and Norwich winning football matches.

It's unacceptable. Moyes out FFS.

[RadioFriendlyUnitShifter]

Judge at the end of the season. We're right smack dab in the middle of the hardest two months of the season. Have a look at the fixtures we have in the last 2 and a half months of the year, then look at how we've done against that type of team in those two months in the last 5/6 years. You will see that there is no point judging this season at all yet. We could even win silverware yet. We're 13th now, yes. Will we even be bottom half at the end of the season? Will we be below Norwich? The past suggests almost certainly not. So there's plenty still to change. No point getting down about being below Norwich when we will probably be out of sight of them come the end of the season.

I agree and I also don't.

Yes we should judge when 38 league games have passed, but on the other hand this is the third (or fourth -- I've lost count) season in a row in which we've started terribly and then climbed back up the table when any chance of a good season is all but over.

Moyes deserves as much criticism for the bad start as he does praise for the good ends. I suspect if it was the other way around and we ended seasons how we start them Moyes would get more stick. It's only because we go into the summer on the back of good form that we: a.) Forget the bad form at the start and b.) Have a sense of hope for the next season, rather than dread. And then when the season starts... Deja vu!

[Brennan]

Judge at the end of the season. We're right smack dab in the middle of the hardest two months of the season. Have a look at the fixtures we have in the last 2 and a half months of the year, then look at how we've done against that type of team in those two months in the last 5/6 years. You will see that there is no point judging this season at all yet. We could even win silverware yet. We're 13th now, yes. Will we even be bottom half at the end of the season? Will we be below Norwich? The past suggests almost certainly not. So there's plenty still to change. No point getting down about being below Norwich when we will probably be out of sight of them come the end of the season.

People were saying this at the start of December when we had just come out of our supposed 'hard patch', the same people were saying that we'd kick on after Christmas like we always do. Well guess what ? Norwich have been ahead of us consistently since January, when we had a run of games which we should have won easily. 8 points from a possible 21 against teams like Stoke, Norwich, and Swansea. Absolute joke.

I also disagree with the statement that we're in the hardest two months of the season. We had a much tougher run of fixtures in September/October.

[Cena]

Insane isn't it ?! It seems that the league position mid-season is more important than the position at the end of the season for some.

Sure when you've run out of things to criticise Moyes about, why not blame him for things that he has no control over. Such as the PL cancelling a fixture and Norwich winning football matches.

It's unacceptable. Moyes out FFS.

I see your happy finishing 8th every season, thats up too you mate, fair enough

[Brennan]

Insane isn't it ?! It seems that the league position mid-season is more important than the position at the end of the season for some.

Sure when you've run out of things to criticise Moyes about, why not blame him for things that he has no control over. Such as the PL cancelling a fixture and Norwich winning football matches.

It's unacceptable. Moyes out FFS.

Only taking note of the league position at the end of the season is just as naive. Some may see 8th as a good position for Everton to be in, but it certainly isn't when you take into account our ridiculous starts to every season. We could be much higher if we didn't take 3 months to play like we should be.

[The Equaliser]

I see your happy finishing 8th every season, thats up too you mate, fair enough

Ah yes. The old 'blame the rest of the supporters as well for accepting mediocrity' line. Forgot that it's all the fans' fault as well. Silly me.

[The Equaliser]

Only taking note of the league position at the end of the season is just as naive. Some may see 8th as a good position for Everton to be in, but it certainly isn't when you take into account our ridiculous starts to every season. We could be much higher if we didn't take 3 months to play like we should be.

It's what counts though.

[Cena]

Ah yes. The old 'blame the rest of the supporters as well for accepting mediocrity' line. Forgot that it's all the fans' fault as well. Silly me.

What are you on about?

Confused by this

[paulbefc]

I don't think we'll end up 13th, prob be 8th, and even then, 8th is nowhere near good enough for me, as i say, we're Everton, we shouldn't settle for this being the norm.

It's a bit sh*t, having little to play for each year, yes but asking for more is like kopites demanding the premier league, in a way. Think back to the first of September and what you'd have expected us to achieve then. Pienaar, Arteta, Beckford, Yak etc gone. Only two very speculative loans brought in. If someone had said then (and no one did for good reason) "I still think our squad's good enough for europe" they'd have been called deluded. Since we used to get 6th or 5th regularly, Spurs have finally found a good manager to go with their huge budget and City have spent £450m. Thus, they have overtaken us. There is a concrete top 5 which won'tbe broken into. Then there's the sh*te who have spent £100m in 18 months and then there is us, the Gerodies and Sland battling for 7th.

Maybe I'm negative mate but not until we get big investment, the RS or Arsenal implode a bit, or sell one of our stars for an over-large fee will we see the top 6 again.

[Cena]

It's a bit sh*t, having little to play for each year, yes but asking for more is like kopites demanding the premier league, in a way. Think back to the first of September and what you'd have expected us to achieve then. Pienaar, Arteta, Beckford, Yak etc gone. Only two very speculative loans brought in. If someone had said then (and no one did for good reason) "I still think our squad's good enough for europe" they'd have been called deluded. Since we used to get 6th or 5th regularly, Spurs have finally found a good manager to go with their huge budget and City have spent £450m. Thus, they have overtaken us. There is a concrete top 5 which won'tbe broken into. Then there's the sh*te who have spent £100m in 18 months and then there is us, the Gerodies and Sland battling for 7th.

Maybe I'm negative mate but not until we get big investment, the RS or Arsenal implode a bit, or sell one of our stars for an over-large fee will we see the top 6 again.

Oh i kno its virtually impossible to finish higher that the top 8, but my point is we shouldn't settle for that

[Brennan]

It's a bit sh*t, having little to play for each year, yes but asking for more is like kopites demanding the premier league, in a way. Think back to the first of September and what you'd have expected us to achieve then. Pienaar, Arteta, Beckford, Yak etc gone. Only two very speculative loans brought in. If someone had said then (and no one did for good reason) "I still think our squad's good enough for europe" they'd have been called deluded. Since we used to get 6th or 5th regularly, Spurs have finally found a good manager to go with their huge budget and City have spent £450m. Thus, they have overtaken us. There is a concrete top 5 which won'tbe broken into. Then there's the sh*te who have spent £100m in 18 months and then there is us, the Gerodies and Sland battling for 7th.

Maybe I'm negative mate but not until we get big investment, the RS or Arsenal implode a bit, or sell one of our stars for an over-large fee will we see the top 6 again.

[paulbefc]

Only taking note of the league position at the end of the season is just as naive. Some may see 8th as a good position for Everton to be in, but it certainly isn't when you take into account our ridiculous starts to every season. We could be much higher if we didn't take 3 months to play like we should be.

Everyone knows 13th isn't good enough and we have the right to fume, but we'll finish higher. And I believe when you say we should sort out our starts to the season that you are trivialising the challenge that is competing in the premier league to the extreme. The fact is that we can't go on 8 game unbeaten runs all season. I'll guarantee that if we started a season like we finished the last 4 or 5 we'd cock it up in the second half of the season because we don't have the squad.Even if we kept all our players fit, they're not the class of player that turns out quality performance week in week out (barring Baines and Felli, arguably). You're trivialising the damn near impossible.

[Brennan]

Everyone knows 13th isn't good enough and we have the right to fume, but we'll finish higher. And I believe when you say we should sort out our starts to the season that you are trivialising the challenge that is competing in the premier league to the extreme. The fact is that we can't go on 8 game unbeaten runs all season. I'll guarantee that if we started a season like we finished the last 4 or 5 we'd cock it up in the second half of the season because we don't have the squad.Even if we kept all our players fit, they're not the class of player that turns out quality performance week in week out (barring Baines and Felli, arguably). You're trivialising the damn near impossible.

Take a look at the squads who played against Bolton, Norwich and Stoke at home. Tell me why we shouldn't have beaten those teams with the squad we had. I'll start you off, Bolton:

24 Howard
02 Hibbert
03 Baines
05 Heitinga
06 Jagielka (Rodwell - 42' )
15 Distin Booked
18 Neville
21 Osman (Gueye - 53' )
08 Saha
09 Donovan
11 Stracqualursi

That was when we lost 2-1 and our only goal was from Tim Howard.

[paulbefc]

Witty that, like. Knew you'd jump on that . Don't reckon you even read the rest of it. Same principle though. We have no divine right to finish in the top 6 like they have no divine right to expect this year to be "their year" every year. I agree with Davek and Cena that the club is not one which should be in this situation but it is.

[The Equaliser]

What are you on about?

Confused by this

I see your happy finishing 8th every season, thats up too you mate, fair enough

Where do you see this ? Where did I say it ? You invented that. You accused me of being happy with finishing 8th, which is the same as blaming other fans for accepting mediocrity. It's the last resort of some fans when they've finished blaming everybody else for our current plight.

A lot of the stick Moyes has received this season is justified IMO. Including the point about the poor starts and how that contributes to the league position. But there is no need for people to blame him for things over which he has no control, which is what I was pointing out to young Shifter.

[paulbefc]

Take a look at the squads who played against Bolton, Norwich and Stoke at home. Tell me why we shouldn't have beaten those teams with the squad we had. I'll start you off, Bolton:

24 Howard
02 Hibbert
03 Baines
05 Heitinga
06 Jagielka (Rodwell - 42' )
15 Distin Booked
18 Neville
21 Osman (Gueye - 53' )
08 Saha
09 Donovan
11 Stracqualursi

That was when we lost 2-1 and our only goal was from Tim Howard.

Laughing here *suspects popcorning*. I did not ever say that we should not be beating those teams. We are better on paper than them, simple. BUT you can't win them all. We will cock up while we have a small squad and put pressure on a few players to carry the rest all season long.