Ban Craig Pawson from all future Everton games

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That argument ignores the fact the city defender got to the ball comfortably ahead of the attacker and goalie, mate. If the Newcastle player was gonna get the ball but for the keeper bringing him down then yeah, but he wasn't.



Disagree mate.


I've said it enough mate, if it was just the goalie and the attacker going for the ball then yeah it's a pen, provided the attacker gets there first of course. But the fact that a defender comfortably collected the ball well ahead of the attacker and keeper changes it from the goalie impeding a attacker to a coming together off the ball.
A coming together off the ball? This is an absolutely ludicrous take. The forward was still actively pursuing the ball and the goalie completed wiped him out. This is actually up there with the DCL call in terms of ridiculousness.
 
A coming together off the ball? This is an absolutely ludicrous take. The forward was still actively pursuing the ball and the goalie completed wiped him out. This is actually up there with the DCL call in terms of ridiculousness.

We'll have to agree to disagree mate. I just don't think you can ignore the fact that the City defender was strides ahead of the Newcastle player and comfortably in possession of the ball. City's goal was under virtually no threat, if the Newcastle player was in possession of the ball or clearly about to take the ball then it would be a pen for me but he wasn't. Or if the keeper had went out of his way to take out Newcastle player it would be a pen for me but he didn't.
 
That argument ignores the fact the city defender got to the ball comfortably ahead of the attacker and goalie, mate. If the Newcastle player was gonna get the ball but for the keeper bringing him down then yeah, but he wasn't.



Disagree mate.


I've said it enough mate, if it was just the goalie and the attacker going for the ball then yeah it's a pen, provided the attacker gets there first of course. But the fact that a defender comfortably collected the ball well ahead of the attacker and keeper changes it from the goalie impeding a attacker to a coming together off the ball.

Interested to know if you would see this in the same way if the roles were reversed?

Striker through on goal but with a slightly heavy touch that the keeper will collect. Defender slides in and takes the striker out, without taking any of the ball at all. Would you say that isn't a penalty as the keeper was comfortably going to get the ball anyway?
 

Interested to know if you would see this in the same way if the roles were reversed?

Striker through on goal but with a slightly heavy touch that the keeper will collect. Defender slides in and takes the striker out, without taking any of the ball at all. Would you say that isn't a penalty as the keeper was comfortably going to get the ball anyway?

I see what you're getting at but it's different that way round. In your example the defender has thrown in a last ditch tackle which always carries a risk of taking out a player and it would be a pen for me. In the City-Newcastle example, the keeper has every right to come and collect but tries to pull out of impeding his teammate who is comfortably strides ahead of the chasing attacker.

Let's say it was further up the pitch. Players A and B are on opposite teams and run for a loose ball. Player C, is a teammate of player A and gets to the ball well ahead of both. As a result of both just having eyes for the ball, players A and B collide whilst player C comfortably runs off with the ball as he would have done anyway... I don't think that's a a foul. I just think 2 players off the ball have ran into each other.
 
We'll have to agree to disagree mate. I just don't think you can ignore the fact that the City defender was strides ahead of the Newcastle player and comfortably in possession of the ball. City's goal was under virtually no threat, if the Newcastle player was in possession of the ball or clearly about to take the ball then it would be a pen for me but he wasn't. Or if the keeper had went out of his way to take out Newcastle player it would be a pen for me but he didn't.
He removed any ability for the Newcastle forward to even attempt to recover the ball, or at the very least put pressure on the defender. Anywhere else on the pitch, if a player slides right through you it's a foul. So, it should be a penalty.

Similar to how years ago, the United keeper came right through Sigurdsson after he'd played the ball, leaving him on the ground and adjudged to be offside in following phase). It doesn't get less of a tackle the later you are to make the challenge.
 
I see what you're getting at but it's different that way round. In your example the defender has thrown in a last ditch tackle which always carries a risk of taking out a player and it would be a pen for me. In the City-Newcastle example, the keeper has every right to come and collect but tries to pull out of impeding his teammate who is comfortably strides ahead of the chasing attacker.

Let's say it was further up the pitch. Players A and B are on opposite teams and run for a loose ball. Player C, is a teammate of player A and gets to the ball well ahead of both. As a result of both just having eyes for the ball, players A and B collide whilst player C comfortably runs off with the ball as he would have done anyway... I don't think that's a a foul. I just think 2 players off the ball have ran into each other.
The 'keeper can come to collect the ball, but when he goes to ground and slides, he runs the risk of committing a foul in the same way any other player does, IMO.

Your scenario implies that players A and B are both on their feet and have a "coming together". If player A goes to ground (as the 'keeper did), slides and then takes down player B, I'd say that is then a foul, regardless of whether either payer would get the ball.
 

I think I posted this in 2022, things still haven’t changed, some of the videos are now removed or don’t exist anymore;


What more does there have to be? I’m telling you what… you have to throw your legs out behind you and dive… however when we did that against Liverpool, the darlings of the league, we were criticised by the media from all angles. Again, if that’s Salah yesterday he gets that penalty because Salah’s arms would have been up in the air and he would have dropped to his knee’s.



What I don’t get is the clear and obvious thing. So VAR has said ‘if the penalty was given it wouldn’t of been overturned’, does that not mean it was a clear and obvious error from the referee not to award the penalty in the first place? Because to me it is. The play should of been brought back for a pen and Braithwaite’s sending off over turned. Let’s add it to this list of this season;



- no red card for Tarkowski against Richarlison at home. Knee high tackle that didn’t even get a booking.



This was at 0-0

Game finished 3-1 to Everton



-no red card for Shelvey two footed tackle on a Gordon away at Newcastle. Got booked, however this was a red card.


This was at 0-0

Game finished 3-1 to Newcastle



-another 35 seconds added onto injury time allowing Villa to take and score a corner. I get another ten or 15 seconds but another half a minute, never.



This was at 0-0

Game finished 0-1 to Villa



-Tottenham at home. Richarlison takes the around the goalkeeper. Hugo Lloris clatters I to him, the referee gives a penalty. VAR tells the ref to goto the monitor as Lloris could of got a finger tip to the ball. Even watching the replays to this day I cannot see whether the ball is knocked around Lloris by Richarlison or Lloris get a finger to it. Clear and obvious mistake by the ref? No it isn’t. However this decision is overturned by the ref. What’s worse is that the ref blew for the penalty when the ball was still in play. Everton attacking. The penalty was reverse and Spurs given a drop ball.





Also, in this game Mason Holgate won the ball cleanly in an tackle which he followed through on the opponent. Realistically, it was a yellow card, this is what was given. However, VAR instructed the ref to look at the decision, which was adjudged as serious foul play resulting in a straight red card for Holgate. How this tackle was any different from James Tarkowski? Insane.

This was at 0-0 and the game finished 0-0.



-Brentford away. Ball is crossed in. Rondon can’t make any sort of attempt to play the ball as the defender has hold of his shirt. To the point were Rondon’s stomach is visible as half of his shirt is being pulled towards the defender. This wasn’t given on the field, nor did VAR intervene and award a penalty. This was after Brentford themselves had been awarded a penalty which they scored.

https://wittyfutty.com/2021/11/video-rondon-with-a-clear-penalty-appeal-vs-brentford/?amp

This was at 1-0 and that’s how it finished, 1-0 to Brentford



-Southampton away. 0-0 game has just begun. Everton on the attack, Townsend crosses the ball, Romeu moves his arm towards the ball. This is a penalty decision which VAR looked at and decided this was not worthy of a penalty.



This was at 0-0 and Southampton went on to win 2-0.



-Manchester City at home.

This one, is ridiculous. A decision which was criticised by every pundit and media outlet. Everton loosing by one goal in the 84th minute. Richarlison shoots and the ball bounces up off the keeper. Idiotically Rodri moves his arm towards the ball and controls the ball with his arm. This penalty is the definition of the term ‘stonewaller’. Everton players’ reactions are for all to see. They sprint to the referee as it would seem the referee never saw the incident as no penalty was awarded. VAR then looked at the on field decision and shockingly did not advise the referee to go to the monitor. A crazy decision which completely made a mockery of VAR and how it is used. This incident drew an apology from the football association and head of the referees Mike Riley.




This match finished 0-1, with Manchester City taking all three points.



-Newcastle at home.

At 0-0, a tense game, neither team want to lose. With around ten minutes left Allan tactically and cynically fouls Saint-Maximan. It’s not a good tackle however it is a tackle you see in most Premier League games. Newcastle are about to counter attack and Allan has no choice other than to foul. Allan clips ASM foot and a yellow card is given. Up steps the VAR. They recommend to goto the monitor as this may be violent contact. The referee agrees and rescind’s the yellow brandishing a straight red card. This kind of tackle happens in most games. This was not a dangerous tackle. It was not an ankle/leg beaker, yet this was deemed a poor tackle and straight red card.




This game finished 1-0 to Everton. However this resulted in a three match suspension for Allan.



-Liverpool away.

Three incidents in this game which need to be spoken about.

  1. Anthony Gordon, at 0-0 is running in Liverpool’s box. Keita sticks out a leg which stops Gordon getting to the ball which he has knocked around him. Gordon, quite dramatically throws his legs high, however there is no doubt the leg movement stops Gordon, however no penalty is awarded and instead Gordon is booked for diving.






  1. At half time the players come together in a melee in the middle of the field. During this, Sadio Mane raises his hand towards Allan’s face, pushing him away, this should be classed as violent conduct as you are simply not allowed to aggressively push somebody in the face. Assuming this is actually what Mane was booked for, he was lucky not to get a straight red card for this incident, however he was booked. Incredibly less than ten seconds later he did it again. Mason Holgate gives Mane a push and Mane put his finger on Holgates face, thrusting it upwards towards his eye. As this was missed by the referee and VAR are not allowed to intervene for a yellow card decision, no action was taken by the ref and Mane remained on the pitch.






  1. To me, the most incredible decision during this game. Anthony Gordon is away, he’s in the box and Joel Matip is chasing him. Not too dissimilar to Jared Braithwaite’s red card against Brentford. The defender is behind him, he catches Gordon’s leg and pushes him in the back. Looking back, not only is this an awful decision not to award a penalty but this could of potentially been a red card for the defender as the last man. This decision at 0-0 with the game having 40 minutes remaining potentially gives Everton the lead and something to hang on for. Instead, nothing given, and no VAR intervention.






These three major decisions cost Everton any opportunity to steal a win or nick a point. Instead Everton lost this game 2-0. Also, on the point of Anthony Gordon diving for his first penalty decision. I am still under the impression that it is simply not upto Gordon to get over and or out of the way of a trailing leg. How is this any different for Kenny’s sending off against Wolves at home. He leaves a leg in which Raul Jiminez made the most of, dived, and screamed in apparent agony. I am still convinced there is zero contact however the referee brandished a second yellow and sent Kenny off. Look for yourselves; skip to 2:56.







-Brentford at home.

The most recent and the most fresh incident. Everton are winning 1-0 in this pivotal game, a win secures Everton’s Premier League survival. Up steps Michael Oliver. Richarlison in the opponents box is battling with a Brentford defender. This defender pulls Richarlison’s shirt, again much like Brentford away, the shirt is almost clean off. Michael Oliver only about 4 yards away deems this action completely legal by the letter of the law and nothing is given. Low and behold the ball gets kicked long catching Jared Braithwaite out of position. Ivan Toney very cleverly runs ahead of him, feels contact, or rather draws contact and Everton are reduced to ten men. This whole scenario should of been rectified by a VAR review which should of found the Brentford player guilt of a clean shirt grab. This would of resulted in a penalty for Everton, thus a reprieve on the red card. However, if would seem this ‘tackle’ was similar to Joel Matip against Anthony Gordon at Anfield, yet only one of these was perceived a foul, and a red card.



https://youtu.be/PtU4kyCcSGg



Also, probably in the sense of fairness Michael Oliver decided to then award us a penalty. Now, this was a foul, however this was in my opinion less of a foul than the shirt pull. Everton receive the penalty and yet the central Brentford defender is not booked for this foul. He is not booked as this would of been his second bookable offence and he would of been sent off. Yet another awful mistake which has ultimately cost Everton.



https://youtu.be/JOyUPBUgXsE



Everton went on to lose this game 2-3.



Let’s have it correct, we have been terrible all season. But let’s also have it correct, we have been at the end of some really poor decisions this season. VAR was supposedly brought it to help referee’s. With so much going on I completely understand why a ref would need some assistance. However it would seem that VAR has its flaws aswell, so who is managing them? Who is at fault if the referee and VAR get the decision incorrrect? Do the referees have an agenda. Again, let’s look at the ref’s and VAR during these poor decisions.



Everton vs Burnley - ref, Martin Atkinson, VAR, Kevin Friend



Newcastle vs Everton - ref, Anthony Taylor, VAR, Chris Kavanagh



Everton vs Aston Villa - ref, Craig Pawson, VAR, John Brooks



Everton vs Tottenham - ref, Chris Kavanagh, VAR, John Moss



Brentford vs Everton, ref, John Brooks, VAR, John Moss



Southampton vs Everton, ref, Andy Madley, VAR, Andre Marriner



Everton vs Man City, ref, Paul Tierney, VAR, Chris Kavanagh



Everton vs Newcastle, ref, Craig Pawson, VAR, Stuart Attwell



Liverpool vs Everton, ref, Stuart Attwell, VAR, Darren England



Everton vs Brentford, ref, Michael Oliver, VAR, Darren England



This season;



Harry Kane dive for penalty

Van Dijk no red card in derby

Gordon no pen, joelinton not sent off against Newcastle


Your missing (or I am) the Micheal Keane one, when he stepped backwards in the box and happened to step on the forwards toes as he was watching the ball travel through the air. It was reviewed for ages and given as a penalty.
 
The 'keeper can come to collect the ball, but when he goes to ground and slides, he runs the risk of committing a foul in the same way any other player does, IMO.

Your scenario implies that players A and B are both on their feet and have a "coming together". If player A goes to ground (as the 'keeper did), slides and then takes down player B, I'd say that is then a foul, regardless of whether either payer would get the ball.

I get what you are saying but the nature of a goalie's position is that he has to come to ground to collect the ball with his hands, something outfielders obviously can't do. The keeper could well have got there first in which case defo not a pen, if the attacker had got there first and keeper took him out, defo a pen. The defender being well ahead of both is just important context for me and the attacking team certainly do not deserve a free shot at goal in my eyes.
 
I see what you're getting at but it's different that way round. In your example the defender has thrown in a last ditch tackle which always carries a risk of taking out a player and it would be a pen for me. In the City-Newcastle example, the keeper has every right to come and collect but tries to pull out of impeding his teammate who is comfortably strides ahead of the chasing attacker.

Let's say it was further up the pitch. Players A and B are on opposite teams and run for a loose ball. Player C, is a teammate of player A and gets to the ball well ahead of both. As a result of both just having eyes for the ball, players A and B collide whilst player C comfortably runs off with the ball as he would have done anyway... I don't think that's a a foul. I just think 2 players off the ball have ran into each other.
If a player slides through an opposition player when the ball is nowhere near, its a straight red card. The fact that he's a goalkeeper and protected, means that it should just be a penalty. If a player is running down the wing and my left back has it covered, can I just slide tackle through him?
 
If a player slides through an opposition player when the ball is nowhere near, its a straight red card. The fact that he's a goalkeeper and protected, means that it should just be a penalty. If a player is running down the wing and my left back has it covered, can I just slide tackle through him?

Your example is a deliberate attempt to take out a player with no attempt for the ball, which this was not.
 
He removed any ability for the Newcastle forward to even attempt to recover the ball, or at the very least put pressure on the defender. Anywhere else on the pitch, if a player slides right through you it's a foul. So, it should be a penalty.

Similar to how years ago, the United keeper came right through Sigurdsson after he'd played the ball, leaving him on the ground and adjudged to be offside in following phase). It doesn't get less of a tackle the later you are to make the challenge.

That United one it was actually a tackle from a defender which left Sigurdsson on the floor, but the challenge came in after the shot was made which never gets given as a pen. While that goal should have stood because Sigudrsson did not impact the keeper's ability to save, I do blame him slightly for not just getting straight back up and re-joining the attack.
 

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