Do away with draws

[Robert Jarvis]

Just an idea for a little chat. What if instead of score draws the victory and the 3 points was given to the away side ala the Euro comps, so the only draw that would count for 1 point would be a no score draw.

Now I am no great shakes on statistics but I wonder how that would make the Prem look? Just an idea to shake up our football.:)

[Chris]

I think the game is fine as it is in large. I'd not try to 'fix' anything.
I would like to see goal line electronics and offside electronics introduced. Maybe instant video replays in stadiums too, but other than that the game is growing old beautifully for me. Let it be.

[Rob]

I was thinking of something similar to this but slightly different, IMO the points as it is really benefits the teams that either win or lose and hinder teams like us who usually win, sometimes draw and rarely lose.

Don't get me? well lets take a 10 game example.

Everton, win 5, draw 4 and lose 1. points = 19

Spurs (for eg) win 6, draw 0 and lose 4. Points = 18.

Now thats one point different, but our record is FAR superior but the points do not reflect it.

Ok, so lets say the points system is changed to 4 for a win and 2 for a draw. now all of a sudden, in the same run of games we get -

28 points and a team like spurs would get - 24 points. a clear 4 point gap showing our far superior record.

well, its something to think about anyway?

[monty]

I was thinking of something similar to this but slightly different, IMO the points as it is really benefits the teams that either win or lose and hinder teams like us who usually win, sometimes draw and rarely lose.

Don't get me? well lets take a 10 game example.

Everton, win 5, draw 4 and lose 1. points = 19

Spurs (for eg) win 6, draw 0 and lose 4. Points = 18.

Now thats one point different, but our record is FAR superior but the points do not reflect it.

Ok, so lets say the points system is changed to 4 for a win and 2 for a draw. now all of a sudden, in the same run of games we get -

28 points and a team like spurs would get - 24 points. a clear 4 point gap showing our far superior record.

well, its something to think about anyway?

Nope

[Latch]

Simple is best, the point system is perfectly ok as it is.

[Robert Jarvis]

It was just something to think about Ev. It does not mean that because the present system has been around for some time that there is not room for thinking of improvement. I also agree with Ichigo about bringing IT into the game. But that would not have made any difference at Newcastle where the linesman was clearly thinking of last night's S**G. That fellow cost us at least 1 point if not all 3.

[bluekiwi]

Well it could be worse, they could go the Rugby League way, and have essentially golden goal route - makes for good watching apparently.

Personally I think sometimes a draw is a fair reflection on a game - not always mind!

As for a different point system, to be honest look at the table if you employed the 4 points for a win, and 2 for a draw, not exactly a huge difference!


AS IS NEW P W D L F A D AS IS NEW

1 1 Manc Utd 31 25 3 3 74 21 53 78 106
2 2 Chelsea 31 22 6 3 55 19 36 72 100
3 3 Liverpool 31 17 6 8 48 21 27 57 80
4 4 Arsenal 30 16 7 7 52 28 24 55 78
5 5 Everton 32 13 11 8 43 28 15 50 74
6 6 Bolton 31 15 5 11 36 38 -2 50 70
7 7 Tottenham 31 14 6 11 44 44 0 48 68
8 9 Reading 31 13 5 13 43 39 4 44 62
9 8 Portsmouth 31 11 10 10 37 32 5 43 64
10 10 Blackburn 31 12 4 15 37 45 -8 40 56
11 13 Newcastle 31 10 7 14 34 40 -6 37 54
12 15 Manc City 31 10 7 14 23 34 -11 37 54
13 14 Middlesbrough 31 9 9 13 32 38 -6 36 54
14 11 Aston Villa 31 7 14 10 30 36 -6 35 56
15 12 Fulham 32 7 14 11 33 49 -16 35 56
16 16 Wigan 31 9 6 16 30 45 -15 33 48
17 17 Charlton 32 8 7 17 29 49 -20 31 46
18 18 Sheffield Utd 31 8 7 16 25 45 -20 31 46
19 19 West Ham 31 7 5 19 25 51 -26 26 38
20 20 Watford 31 3 11 17 19 47 -28 20 34

[Latch]

It was just something to think about Ev. It does not mean that because the present system has been around for some time that there is not room for thinking of improvement. I also agree with Ichigo about bringing IT into the game. But that would not have made any difference at Newcastle where the linesman was clearly thinking of last night's S**G. That fellow cost us at least 1 point if not all 3.

I was not saying that your idea was a bad one Robert, just that i think the point system is ok as it is.

What you are suggesting as a talking point is that the away side get all three points if the game ends in a score draw.

Two scenarios ~

1) The HOME side are winning 3-0 at half time, the away team score three in the second half, you could argue that as the away side they deserve to collect all three points.

2) The AWAY team is 3 up at the interval, the home side come out for the second half all guns blazing, breathtaking football etc.........., they get back to 3-3 and dont get anything for their efforts, what a sickener that would be, they would have needed to score four to get three points.

My argument is that any side that manages to claw their way back from a 3-0 defecit deserve a share of the spoils irrespective of if they are the home or away side.

I dont even agree with goal-line gizmos, to my mind it would steralize the game, make it clinical and robotic as a spectacle.

The ' Beautifull Game ' is beautifull the way it is, and the reason for that is that ' human error ' is still involved, give me the controversies, injustice and talking points any day of the week, some decisions go for you some go against, over the course of a season they even themselves out.

Hi-Tech means the end of the game as we know and love it now, just imagine no more ' we wuz robbed ', Unthinkable!

Give me a ' specsaver ' ref any day of the week, makes footy and life in general more exciting.

COYB

[Robert Jarvis]

It was just food for thought, remember the system was changed before to it's current state. No doubt there were people saying then no need for change. Interesting in the info provided it really favours our club.

[monty]

It was just food for thought, remember the system was changed before to it's current state. No doubt there were people saying then no need for change. Interesting in the info provided it really favours our club.

No doubt Robert you are right, it is supposedly done in the name of progress. I still find it incredible to believe that the World Cup is now settled by penalties, not in line with the ethics of the game I was brought up with.

[Rob]

Everyone have a look at the table bluekiwi posted, it shows that before bolton won we would have been 4 points ahead and going into tonight game one point ahead and not 3 points behind.

not a big difference? MY ARSE! its a 4 point difference and clearly displays that the current system favours teams that win or lose and hardly ever draw.

[monty]

Lets have a reality check here, it doesn't matter a flying f---, the league is based on its present rules, end of story. Arguments like this are only relevent when, at the end of season, many clubs want to change the points structure, I hear no clamour in this regard.:)

[Rob]

well, its a debate thats all :)

I think I make perfect sense (for once) and shouldn't clubs who win and draw be higher than clubs who win and lose?

[monty]

well, its a debate thats all :)

I think I make perfect sense (for once) and shouldn't clubs who win and draw be higher than clubs who win and lose?

Would you think anything else Rob:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The idea of this system was prevent the boring defensive draw, which it has done to a degree hence I support it(y)

[Rob]

well, I did say for once :p

I honestly think that teams that draw and win more should be higher than the teams that win and lose more.

The current system punishes the teams who draw a lot of game, and for me that isn't right.

Wouldn't you say that we have a better record and better GD than bolton? and yet instead of being ahead of them by one, we are behind by 3.

That in itself speaks for itself and to be blunt, in favour of my argument.

[Robert Jarvis]

No need to get uptight, I just put this in as a topic for conversation or as Rob puts it a debate. It is strange though that the points raised favour Everton which say a lot for our results.

[Rob]

It does in this case RJ yes, but it is something I have thought for a long time, a draw should be worth significantly more than getting a beat but however should still be much less than a win.

[Robert Jarvis]

I think not for a no score draw, but for a score draw as today one would think should count for something. Just think 1 point each for a 0-0, but for a score draw 1 point to the home side and 2 points for the away club. How about that.

[Rob]

my god... now it is getting complicated RJ :D

Personally, whenever I think of changing it to a 4-2 system I always think well, if it ain't broke don't fix it. And football isn't broke, so it doesn't need fixing.

however, the CL now... THAT is broke.

[Robert Jarvis]

The CL will never change, why? you may ask. Simple G14. The top clubs in Europe regard it as their own little money spinner. But when you get leagues like in Scotland it becomes a joke, same 2 clubs each year who to be honest would struggle if they played in the PL.

[Rob]

yeh, I used to say that about the SPL but then... how many clubs have ever won the PL? 4? in how many years.... we can't exactly talk can we.

The G14 needs to be broken apart, the whole of football needs to side against it and demand it ceases to exist.

[monty]

The CL will never change, why? you may ask. Simple G14. The top clubs in Europe regard it as their own little money spinner. But when you get leagues like in Scotland it becomes a joke, same 2 clubs each year who to be honest would struggle if they played in the PL.

The only way the CL will change Robert is if the telly people want it to. That may happen if viewers start getting fed up with a handful of teams winning it all the time. Some of these people in charge of football would sell their mothers into slavery for a few bob.

[McBain]

VIDEO REFEREE

Its the simplest system and with all the money in this league Ive no clue why they dont put one in. Back play incidents, goal lines, handballs. Incident happens, ref stops play, Video ref has a look and Bobs your Uncle. We do it here in Rugby league (and they do the same in Super League).

Its not an entireley perfect system but it makes for some great drama in the crowd.

[Robert Jarvis]

It does, in general though Rugby refs are made of sterner and more intelligent stuff than football refs. Also the rugby players are far more disciplined when dealing with the ref. Football refs should hand out a few more red cards for dissent or arguing.

[monty]

It does, in general though Rugby refs are made of sterner and more intelligent stuff than football refs. Also the rugby players are far more disciplined when dealing with the ref. Football refs should hand out a few more red cards for dissent or arguing.

If they did the G14 group would be upset Robert because they have the majority of moaning gits in football, Utd, RS, Gooners, RM, Barca and you can add Chelsea if they ever get membership application accepted. All this carping on at the referee only serves as a very poor example to youngsters and should be stamped out with question but the authorities are either incapable or corrupt..

[Robert Jarvis]

Monty, you can add Allardyce to that list.

[bluekiwi]

Everyone have a look at the table bluekiwi posted, it shows that before bolton won we would have been 4 points ahead and going into tonight game one point ahead and not 3 points behind.

not a big difference? MY ARSE! its a 4 point difference and clearly displays that the current system favours teams that win or lose and hardly ever draw.

Hey Rob, when I said 'Not a huge difference', what I was meaning was in the general look of the table. Sure we were in a better position at that time, although we didn't exactly storm up the table. The thing is, if teams were to get more points for a draw, then I think you'd find that teams would sit back on a lead much more often, and settle for a draw.


never seen a rugby player dive either, and feign injury, and roll over 7 times to try to con a ref.

sterner and more intelligent stuff, isnt that the truth.

I do have to say, as an avid rugby fan (can't help it I'm Kiwi ;) ), you'll find that there are other ways rugby players get away with 'professional fouls', much of which is not seen as it is located in the middle of a mass of bodies, although it is much better than it has been.

As for the way in rugby players are more disciplined, well this is basically due to the way in which penalties are handled, either marched 10m down the field, or reversed.

I dont' think it has so much to do with the refs or the players themselves, but much more to do with the rules that have been changed by the governing body!!

And as much as I'd like to see certain changes added to football, I can't see it happening, FIFA can't make decisions, they pfaff around and are more worried about where the next world cup is going to be held.


... And Relax :mellow: ...